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Want to found a startup? Work at one first

blog.lawrencejones.dev

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Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#81

Post by avmich »

> If you can’t hire exceptional people then you shouldn’t expect exceptional outcomes: e.g, the outcomes most VCs expect.

BS. Exceptional people are mostly an illusion - yes, there are (for example) Linus Torvalds and Fabrice Bellard, but there are much less such people than startups, orders of magnitudes less. Exceptionalism comes from the combination of the idea quality, low level of mistakes in execution, some luck in the market, some combination of qualities, like perseverance, which smoothes out some problems - and other qualities like that, engineering level is certainly important but you can have exceptional results with just competent engineering. It's hard to find an example of textbook successful startups where engineering was outstanding. Sorry, won't give examples, just look for yourselves.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#82

Post by lawrjone »

hcks wrote: post #73

Contra a lot of popular belief here: I don’t understand how working as an engineer (because this is always what seems to be implied) will improve your odds at starting a startup. Working as an engineer, and kickstarting a business are two very different jobs. Even in practice successful tech startup founders seems to be 40 yos with a background in management consulting. So I really wonder where do people get the idea…

I'm not sure most successful tech start-up founders have management consultant backgrounds, I've not seen that at least!

Speaking to the point about not having been a founder myself: you're right, and hope I was clear about that in the article. But I have spent the last year as the first employee working on building out a start-up, where a big challenge is in establishing a team and learning how to build a product that people want to buy.

When you build a start-up as a founder, you need to know how to do that stuff. Otherwise there won't be much point in being good at the founder-specific work like raising money etc, because there's not a business around it.

The main point is to try to minimise the 'firsts' you might have when you start your own company. If the only thing you're doing for the first time is exclusively founder responsibility, then I think you're much more likely to be successful.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#83

Post by arkitaip »

jononomo wrote: post #77

Does anyone care anymore about just having five kids and a backyard and a loving spouse and a wall full of books and solid church community? I'm so tired of people just trying to make money.

Most people want those things. The HN bubble just makes it seem like doing a startup is the apex accomplishment in life.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#84

Post by lawrjone »

dkyc wrote: post #66

I feel like this article makes valid points, but they don't necessarily support its conclusion. The question it asks whether to start a startup or work at another startup first. Yes, working at a startup and gaining experience will likely improve your abilities and increase your chances to succeed later. However, so would starting your own startup. The question about working somewhere else is not "is it better than n…

I think the thing about starting your own start-up without experience seeing what works elsewhere is you're highly unlikely to avoid making some big mistakes.

If you've spent time in a growing company and at least seen how things evolve over the years, you have an idea of what does work that you can base your first attempts against.

Trying to come up with novel solutions for everything from hiring to org structure is a recipe for pain, and I'd invest my money with a team of people who've experienced good versions of these things over those with none any day.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#85

Post by solarmist »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #37
geeny777 wrote: post #34

How do you pick a high-growth startup that makes it through several stages? It's like saying the best way to make money is to pick stocks that beat the market.

Look for the phrase "scale-up" instead of "start-up", these are usually well-funded, up-and-running companies that still have some of the start-up mentality but without the financial worries. Of course, some of these are already a decade old and may employ hundreds or thousands of people already, so YMMV; they might just be like older, boring enterprises, just not as formal or fixed in their ways.

Those are companies that believe they have product market fit though. At that point they are starting to transform from a startup into an established company.

So most of the early stage learnings can no longer happen.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#86

Post by lawrjone »

avmich wrote: post #81

> If you can’t hire exceptional people then you shouldn’t expect exceptional outcomes: e.g, the outcomes most VCs expect. BS. Exceptional people are mostly an illusion - yes, there are (for example) Linus Torvalds and Fabrice Bellard, but there are much less such people than startups, orders of magnitudes less. Exceptionalism comes from the combination of the idea quality, low level of mistakes in execution, some luc…

Yep, perhaps I should have said if you can't create an exceptional environment – of which team, culture and mission are all parts – then you can't expect exceptional outcomes.

Hiring people who have experience in those environments before can help you replicate that success again, though. So worth picking them, if you have a choice.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#87

Post by georgesequeira »

Idea generator and fundraising are also a couple of benefits to joining a startup before starting your own.

1. Finding ideas can be hard especially when you start from scratch. Most startups (particularly fast scaling ones) can give you ideas if you look for:

* de-prioritized ideas due to "hyper-focus"

* listening to common problems that customers [0] have that aren't necessarily solved by your company.

* product features built that many other companies would find useful (e.g. collaborative editing infra)

* internal tooling that other companies would find useful

2. Fundraising[1]

Many friends got their first checks from investors that were investors of a startup they previously worked at. And the truth is, if you choose a slow-scaling/zombie startup, you will learn a ton still but honestly, the investors of that company aren't going to be stoked to invest in you if you spin out your own thing.

A quick list of common strategies that worked for them:

* Choose founders who don't treat investors as "dumb money"

* Choose companies backed by great investors

* Join startups that are scaling fast

* Join early (* Ask to meet the investors throughout your tenure (ideally you are upfront with the founders of the company you join)

* Stay there and be a part of the solution through 2+ tough moments (ie. investors can associate you with the success of the company)

[0] Getting to know potential customers and understanding how to acquire them is also super useful.

[1] You can avoid the fundraising focus by going to YC (or equivalent) because you'll get the necessary clout to get investors knocking. If you're going to a startup anyway to get experience and find ideas, you may as well prep for fundraising.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#88

Post by qqqwerty »

jchonphoenix wrote: post #57

I've worked at multiple startups sub 50 to >1000 (unicorn status) and have founded and sold my own company. I've also worked at a few of the FAANGs. This is common advice, especially among VCs since it's one of the key benefits used to pitch prospective employees on giving up that fat FAANG salary, but in my personal experience, it's not so cut and dry. Working in a startup will brand you as a startup person and help…

There is way more than one lesson to learn from each startup. You will hopefully learn how to hire (and possibly fire) people. You will get insight into the nitty gritty of keeping the lights on at a company (taxes, payroll, office leases, etc...), and you will get familiar with the typical fundraising cycle. Most people don't appreciate how fast 18 months to two years of funding can run out. Going through that stuff once or twice when you don't have the pressure of being the founder can be very beneficial. And while going through an accelerator can be a substitute, I can't imagine that encountering a lot of this stuff for the first time while trying to start your first company would be anything less then very stressful.

For most employees, the best deal for them financially is to go the FAANG route. But I absolutely recommend working at a startup if you are hoping to one day start your own. It should be said that most startup employees are not going to start their own company (even ones who think they will). So certainly keep that in mind. But I suppose another benefit is working at a startup is probably a good way to gauge if starting a startup is something you could handle. After having worked at one for a while, I have certainly come to more realistic understanding of what kind of startup I would be comfortable founding. I almost certainly would prefer to bootstrap a small project rather than go the VC route, but I think I would feel pretty comfortable taking VC money if the opportunity called for it. But I have also come to realize that the best fit for me in my next role is probably not as a founder, but most likely as a very early employee of another startup. But this time around I will have a much better idea of what to look for in the founding team.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#89

Post by ren_engineer »

jchonphoenix wrote: post #57

I've worked at multiple startups sub 50 to >1000 (unicorn status) and have founded and sold my own company. I've also worked at a few of the FAANGs. This is common advice, especially among VCs since it's one of the key benefits used to pitch prospective employees on giving up that fat FAANG salary, but in my personal experience, it's not so cut and dry. Working in a startup will brand you as a startup person and help…

>Additionally, given how poorly run most startups are today, I'd posit that you're actually in more danger of learning the wrong lessons than the right lessons by joining a startup

this can be more valuable in many ways, I've literally taken notes about things NOT to do when it comes to things like meetings, processes, etc.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#90

Post by georgesequeira »

geeny777 wrote: post #34

How do you pick a high-growth startup that makes it through several stages? It's like saying the best way to make money is to pick stocks that beat the market.

Look at their investors. When interviewing, ask to speak to the investors. See what they say. When speaking with founders do they have numbers they can show or is it pure show-personship?
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