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Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

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Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#91
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't project violence over the internet You absolutely can, and that's how CloudFlare got into this situation: by posting people's location on the internet they can be made vulnerable to SWATting. > we've shifted away from violence as a means of enforcing social order The intent of KF and similar absolutely is to use violence as a means of enforcing social order, by encouraging stochastic and opportunistic ter…

Quoted post unavailable.

They're referring to a niche academic term that has within the past few years started gaining usage outside of academia. It can be approximately defined as[0]:

> The use of mass public communication, usually against a particular individual or group, which incites or inspires acts of terrorism which are statistically probable but happen seemingly at random.

[0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stochastic_terrorism

Only very loose connection to the stochastic processes of mathematics.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#92

That’s a lot of words to say they’re not dropping Kiwi Farms. In spite of the fact that I think they plainly meet this condition for removal: > Is otherwise illegal, harmful, or violates the rights of others, including content that discloses sensitive personal information, incites or exploits violence against people or animals, or seeks to defraud the public.

That was under “Hosting Products”, KW probably falls under “Security Services”. > Hosting products are those products where Cloudflare is the ultimate host of the content. This is different from products where we are merely providing security or temporary caching services and the content is hosted elsewhere

Yep, the passage would only apply if kf was run on cloudflare pages, or hosted images on cf imgs.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#93

Never thought I'd see the Left trying to weaponize corporations to suppress speech they dislike. Reminds me a LOT of Evangelicals in the 2000s - I know that comparison has been made frequently but that's the last group that made a serious censorship push. I wonder how all of this will end? I support CloudFlare here - they should act as a utility, not as an arbiter of content. This ends poorly and one day will bite th…

Yeah, I remember when "net neutrality" was something that the left was demanding. Once they realized that they had a systematic advantage in petitioning hosting companies to deplatform disfavored content without due process, however, all of the underlying arguments for net neutrality were quietly discarded.

Net neutrality was never about deplatforming, due process, or censorship. It was about ISPs prioritizing traffic or providing free bandwidth for their own services and throttling or charging extra fees for third party services (e.g. Time Warner providing access to their own streaming service without counting towards your bandwidth cap, but not doing the same for Netflix).

It was an economic issue, not a political one.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#94
post #85

Never thought I'd see the Left trying to weaponize corporations to suppress speech they dislike. Reminds me a LOT of Evangelicals in the 2000s - I know that comparison has been made frequently but that's the last group that made a serious censorship push. I wonder how all of this will end? I support CloudFlare here - they should act as a utility, not as an arbiter of content. This ends poorly and one day will bite th…

Quoted post unavailable.

This is why the left also needs a gun rights and ownership culture

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#95
post #75

I am amazed at how cloudflare has turned around and become a reputable, reliable company re: arbitrary breaches of contract based on the CEO's personal opinions. After he breached contract with the Daily Stormer because of "a bad mood" I was sure it'd just devolve into a no-holds barred censorship-fest. Instead he's managing to hold the line against all of the authoritarians and individuals wanting to rip each other…

It's not actually commendable to host content for white supremacists and transphobes. Free speech may be deserving of protection, but white supremacists using the internet to coordinate real-world activities (such as terrorist attacks) doesn't actually qualify as "free speech" deserving protection against "authoritarians and individuals wanting to rip each other down".

If they are doing anything illegal (like coordinating terrorist attacks) we luckily have law enforcement agencies with lots of power to address that.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#96
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8chan literally had sub boards dedicated to child pornography. Kiwi Farms is where people make fun of other people. They're really not comparable unless you believe "not being made fun of" is a human right.

> They're really not comparable unless you believe "not being made fun of" is a human right. This is meant to be sarcastic but a lot of people basically do believe this. Most arguments about "stochastic terrorism" would implicitly aim to devalue/censor any sort of speech that "punched down".

Stochastic terrorism involves actual murder. https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/buffalo-shooter-stocha...

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#97
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, Cloudflare taking it upon themselves to police the Internet is a nightmare in its own, given their bot-prevention services are effectively mandatory in order to even keep any sort of larger interactive website running. Maybe we should additionally also focus on that problem as well. It should not be the case that you need to pay a protection racket just to be able to survive on the Internet. We d…

A protection racket implies collusion between attacker and defender, where the defender comes to you offering “protection”, but then comes again as an attacker to those who refuse. CloudFlare aren’t a protection racket; they’re just an ordinary for-hire private security service, for businesses in “bad parts of town.” They don’t come to anyone; people come to them. And they have any facility for originating outbound r…

> A protection racket implies collusion between attacker and defender, where the defender comes to you offering “protection”, but then comes again as an attacker to those who refuse

For the average Internet citizen, the practical difference doesn't matter: unless you're hiding behind one of the powerhouses, everyone can shoot you off the Internet by renting a botnet for the equivalent of a dozen pizzas in Bitcoin, without having to fear any consequence. In real life, someone disrupting my business for hours would be carted off by police and I could sue their butt off for damages.

> This is the thing: cutting off diplomatic routes is almost never the right approach, even during a hot war.

There are diplomatic routes beyond the Internet, and additionally, at the moment for these four countries access to the Internet is like we'd let their landing ships take harbor at a port and let them unload their tanks in peace. We're not doing that in real life, we should not be doing that in cyberspace as well!

> The Internet is like the Olympics: it provides a way for the common people of different countries to see each-other’s good works and learn to respect one-another; even as the leaders of those countries, and asshole minorities within those countries, are making the news and fanning hawkish sentiment. Throwing out the counterbalance in such a scenario is something you’d expect an Emperor Palpatine figure to do, to engineer a war.

Given the Great Firewall of China, the almost-complete censorship in North Korea for everyone not a high-ranking party cadre and the Internet restrictions in Russia and Iran, it's hard to claim that the Internet in these countries actually fulfils that role.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#98
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't project violence over the internet You absolutely can, and that's how CloudFlare got into this situation: by posting people's location on the internet they can be made vulnerable to SWATting. > we've shifted away from violence as a means of enforcing social order The intent of KF and similar absolutely is to use violence as a means of enforcing social order, by encouraging stochastic and opportunistic ter…

Quoted post unavailable.

What’s your source, KF’s owner’s public statements and posturing? lmao

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#100
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not actually commendable to host content for white supremacists and transphobes. Free speech may be deserving of protection, but white supremacists using the internet to coordinate real-world activities (such as terrorist attacks) doesn't actually qualify as "free speech" deserving protection against "authoritarians and individuals wanting to rip each other down".

If they are doing anything illegal (like coordinating terrorist attacks) we luckily have law enforcement agencies with lots of power to address that.

Ironically law enforcement are part of the problem: if you want someone murdered over the internet in the US, by far the easiest way is to make a bogus phone call to the police. Doesn't work all the time but it's pretty risk free for the perpetrator.
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