Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Performance Improvements in .NET 7

devblogs.microsoft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 164 posts

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#11

Post by fabian2k »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Native AOT will come with .NET 7 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance_improvemen... > Native AOT is different. It’s an evolution of CoreRT, which itself was an evolution of .NET Native, and it’s entirely free of a JIT. The binary that results from publishing a build is a completely standalone executable in the target platform’s platform-specific file format (e.g. COFF on Windows, ELF on Linux, Mach-O on…

I think typical ASP.NET applications likely won't use AOT in the near future. There is quite some "magic" in ASP.NET that I suspect won't work out of the box with AOT because it is heavily reflection-based. And while there are solutions for cases like JSON serialization, as far as I understand they require writing different code right now, so it's not automatic.

AOT is much, much more interesting for cases where startup time matters, and ASP.NET usually isn't such a case. But I can imagine that it will be much more useful and easier to implement for smaller, focused tools that don't use that much reflection-based framework code. CLI tools might be the ideal case for trying this out.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#12

Post by fabian2k »

XzAeRosho wrote: post #3

I don't follow the .NET ecosystem closely enough, but it feels that releasing a mayor version every year feels like kind of unnecessary? Or if they intend to keep doing this, they should release LTS versions of some kind. It feels kind of scary committing to .NET 7 right now, when in a year, it will be replaced by yet another major version promising ever increasing performance gains... Or is the difference between ma…

The most recent upgrades were pretty easy, it looks like the more disruptive changes are mostly done now.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#13

Post by krona »

I wish benchmarks with sample means in the tens of nanoseconds weren't reported and compared by the arithmetic mean. These are not normal distributions and a 10% improvement could just mean you improved the 99% percentile, which is quite typical in my experience given how skewed the distributions tend to be.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#14

Post by phillipcarter »

XzAeRosho wrote: post #3

I don't follow the .NET ecosystem closely enough, but it feels that releasing a mayor version every year feels like kind of unnecessary? Or if they intend to keep doing this, they should release LTS versions of some kind. It feels kind of scary committing to .NET 7 right now, when in a year, it will be replaced by yet another major version promising ever increasing performance gains... Or is the difference between ma…

> Or if they intend to keep doing this, they should release LTS versions of some kind.

That's exactly what they do: https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/support/policy/d...

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#16

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Native AOT will come with .NET 7 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance_improvemen... > Native AOT is different. It’s an evolution of CoreRT, which itself was an evolution of .NET Native, and it’s entirely free of a JIT. The binary that results from publishing a build is a completely standalone executable in the target platform’s platform-specific file format (e.g. COFF on Windows, ELF on Linux, Mach-O on…

> I wonder how things like ASP .NET will run with Native AOT in the future.

Let me give an example of an ASP.NET app lifecycle: an instance is launched, goes through startup code once. When it reports itself healthy, it is put into the Load balancer and then starts handling requests. Code in these paths is executed anywhere from occasionally to 1000s of times per second. After around 24 hours of this, it is shut down and restarted automatically.

So, compiler micro-optimising startup code to take ms off of it, is not interesting at all - it's only run once a day. Startup can take whole seconds, it makes little difference, the instance is ready when it's done. AOT in general isn't that important, but automatic tiered compilation based on usage data is very nice.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#17

Post by rr888 »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #6

On the one hand it's cool that they are improving but how do people keep up with all these additions? I find this really hard. Seems a lot of the changes are new stuff which you have to evaluate and see how they could actually be used productively. For example a while ago I tried the new nullable stuff and while in theory it looks straightforward it turned out to be very difficult to use nullable with existing APIs a…

I think this is pretty common with a lot of legacy code bases in popular languages. Lots of big systems on Java 8, Python 2, we wont talk about JS. :)

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#18

Post by ewjt »

fabian2k wrote: post #11
giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Native AOT will come with .NET 7 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance_improvemen... > Native AOT is different. It’s an evolution of CoreRT, which itself was an evolution of .NET Native, and it’s entirely free of a JIT. The binary that results from publishing a build is a completely standalone executable in the target platform’s platform-specific file format (e.g. COFF on Windows, ELF on Linux, Mach-O on…

I think typical ASP.NET applications likely won't use AOT in the near future. There is quite some "magic" in ASP.NET that I suspect won't work out of the box with AOT because it is heavily reflection-based. And while there are solutions for cases like JSON serialization, as far as I understand they require writing different code right now, so it's not automatic. AOT is much, much more interesting for cases where star…

Serverless hosting (ie. AWS Lambda) makes ASP.NET a primary use case for AOT because cold startup times cripple performance and increase cost.

I suspect they’re just not ready yet and targeting the easy use cases (console apps).

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#19

Post by pjmlp »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Native AOT will come with .NET 7 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance_improvemen... > Native AOT is different. It’s an evolution of CoreRT, which itself was an evolution of .NET Native, and it’s entirely free of a JIT. The binary that results from publishing a build is a completely standalone executable in the target platform’s platform-specific file format (e.g. COFF on Windows, ELF on Linux, Mach-O on…

Finally, I always though NGEN was a bad compromise and full AOT should have been supported since .NET 1.0, specially given Delphi's influence.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 7

#20

Post by romanhn »

fabian2k wrote: post #11
giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Native AOT will come with .NET 7 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance_improvemen... > Native AOT is different. It’s an evolution of CoreRT, which itself was an evolution of .NET Native, and it’s entirely free of a JIT. The binary that results from publishing a build is a completely standalone executable in the target platform’s platform-specific file format (e.g. COFF on Windows, ELF on Linux, Mach-O on…

I think typical ASP.NET applications likely won't use AOT in the near future. There is quite some "magic" in ASP.NET that I suspect won't work out of the box with AOT because it is heavily reflection-based. And while there are solutions for cases like JSON serialization, as far as I understand they require writing different code right now, so it's not automatic. AOT is much, much more interesting for cases where star…

As someone writing a .NET-based API hosted on AWS Lambda, I assure you, startup time matters a ton. I spent a bunch of time getting cold start time down to a semi-reasonable number, but there's still a ton of room for improvement. I for one am very much looking forward to progress on AOT Native.
Post reply on HN