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Want to found a startup? Work at one first

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Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#61

I've worked at multiple startups sub 50 to >1000 (unicorn status) and have founded and sold my own company. I've also worked at a few of the FAANGs. This is common advice, especially among VCs since it's one of the key benefits used to pitch prospective employees on giving up that fat FAANG salary, but in my personal experience, it's not so cut and dry. Working in a startup will brand you as a startup person and help…

I'm not sure I agree with the comparison of picking a start-up to join being the same as one you might invest in.

At least, in terms of this article, a start-up that has growth ambitions and has just raised a round is a great bet. Unlike a potential investor, you didn't need to get in before that round to make the investment worthwhile, and in a sense you don't care as much about the company itself being an outsized success: not if your primary goal is around learning, which I think is legitimate, especially early in your career.

Similarly, I suspect it's not quite right to assume lessons in one start-up don't apply to others. In London at least, there's a strong network of people across the start-up scene who talk a lot. Many of those start-ups have very similar cultures and ways of working, similar enough that they hit the same problems and lessons learned it one often translate to others.

My intention, writing this article, was to encourage people to view joining a start-up with momentum as a valuable learning experience before they start their own thing, possibly more valuable than a big corporation or just jumping into start-ups themselves.

I think finding companies that can provide you with that growth isn't too hard, and I'd be happy to help anyone who wanted to find them, if they wanted it :)

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#62
Potentially good advice here, but some of the details seem off to me. Here are some quick attempts to summarize hopefully as constructive criticism:

In my experience the best options are almost always the middle ground. That is, the startup mentality drives sloppiness and excuses while the big company mentality drives slowness and perfectionism. The best option is somewhere in between. At a startup it can often be extremely valuable to have a "parent in the room" enforce big company thinking and oversight, and at a big company it is almost always useful to at least envision a shorter path than the usual consult with everyone and make a design and see how it goes kind of thing.

The "allows you to respond with “I know this will be ok”" statement as a reaction to major changes and challenges sets off red lights all over my dashboard. The situation will be okay because you made it okay. This is true in companies of all sizes. Fail to take responsibility for the full situation and you are likely doomed.

The "any process you introduce will break by the time you double the headcount" strikes me as classic startup sloppiness. If you really know what the situation is and why you are doing what you are doing then even when changes are necessary it is usually quite explicitly clear what and why. Solid processes and operations often go the other way: even with significant changes the core ideas and methods endure, so be careful what you start with.

Hiring from your personal networks first is another classic sloppy startup error. This tends to end up with clubby teams made of people who aren't actually as good as they might be and that exclude the people you really want to hire. Better to start well outside your personal networks and bring people in as needed. Sorting out the interview process at least at first also works better if it isn't all friends and long time coworkers.

And this business of defining levels is a real mess. All the best organizations I have contributed to have been close to flat.

There are always many paths, but given how treacherous the path to startup success can be it seems worthwhile to air criticism.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#63

My experience at a few startups does not align but I support the overall thesis. More than one startup talked a big game in hiring about the product, the customers and the culture only to be more of a cult of personality where decisions were made in private between cofounders despite being an "open" company, unequal pay despite "transparent" salaries with bands, a lack of managerial skills or care for personnel manag…

Last suggestion deserves a caveat. Unless more than 5% of your revenue will unconditionally require SOC2, you should avoid doing it and accept the small revenue hit.

But you are correct, if you do need it, you should do it as early as you can and buy it out of the box as much as you can. I recommend Tugboat Logic for this.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#64

I wish I had had that opportunity back in 1985 when I founded my first one, but being outside of the Bay Area (as in 1500 miles away) there were basically no software startups at all, and with no internet/web/ycombinator etc, no way to learn anything except by trying and failing. We did ship our product, do marketing, make some sales but not enough so we had to sell the product and close down. Today I know all things…

That bank quote is too funny! What was the product if one may ask?

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#65

I've worked at multiple startups sub 50 to >1000 (unicorn status) and have founded and sold my own company. I've also worked at a few of the FAANGs. This is common advice, especially among VCs since it's one of the key benefits used to pitch prospective employees on giving up that fat FAANG salary, but in my personal experience, it's not so cut and dry. Working in a startup will brand you as a startup person and help…

I agree with plenty of what you are saying, at the same time I believe that joining problematic start-ups or failing start-ups can teach you plenty on how not do things.

Remember that before succeeding you have to fail and improve in a cycle of n times until you succeed. If you succeed without failing then there is a high probability of luck being involved.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#66
I feel like this article makes valid points, but they don't necessarily support its conclusion. The question it asks whether to start a startup or work at another startup first. Yes, working at a startup and gaining experience will likely improve your abilities and increase your chances to succeed later. However, so would starting your own startup.

The question about working somewhere else is not "is it better than nothing", but "is it better than starting a startup now". It can be equally true that "founders that worked at other companies before are more likely to succeed" and "the ideal course of action for a person who wishes to start a successful startup is to start it now".

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#67

Want to found a startup? Just become great at your craft. Dont waste time with success stories and their advices, because it is all survivor bias. Just keep building.

This and “never give up” are the only solid startup advice one should follow. What I work on today I can imagine myself doing until I die. I’m 15 years into my first startup and 3 into my second. Maybe it takes a simpleminded person to have that patience but that’s how you win.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#68

Founder here. Seen plenty of people who “want to start a startup” come through the doors over 10 years. To my knowledge, only 1 ever took the plunge, the rest all moved on to different jobs when they finished up with us. In every case they told me that an advantage of the new place is that they’d learn some more things they need to know for when they start their own thing. To be clear I don’t judge their choices at a…

This seems about right. Startup ideas are the white collar equivalent of day dreaming about how you would spend the money if you won the lottery. It's cheap to talk about, easy to fantasize about, and many people have a very distorted perception of what skills are necessary to be an effective tech founder so (in their minds) their technical proficiency makes it plausible.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#69
Counterpoint: I have seen some very bad habits carried over by founders from growing companies. Success isn't always the result of excellence.

Also, many founders that worked in somewhat larger environments before tend to rush into 'mature' processes long before their benefits outweigh their costs. This almost always grinds progress to a halt, creates a ton of middle management and other non-productive overhead in a startup/scaleup.

Re: Want to found a startup? Work at one first

#70

I've worked at multiple startups sub 50 to >1000 (unicorn status) and have founded and sold my own company. I've also worked at a few of the FAANGs. This is common advice, especially among VCs since it's one of the key benefits used to pitch prospective employees on giving up that fat FAANG salary, but in my personal experience, it's not so cut and dry. Working in a startup will brand you as a startup person and help…

I see that in real life at the moment, the part about the badly run start-up. With some experience, it is easy to spot the mistakes. Most employees are too young / unexperienced so realize it. Heck, half of the middle management is still at their first jobs out of university. And man, it shows. Nowhere near FAANG in terms or organisation or best practices.

Great place to learn a thing or two, if you have the necessary background and experience.

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