Live data from Hacker News

Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

ghuntley.com

91–100 of 149 posts

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#91
post #88

Even developers are taken for a ride. Just like WhatsApp and Chrome, it all comes down to ripple effects of "If others didn't use it, I can't". I have given a number of examples of this stubborn sticky monopoly below. Every newbie while learning to code: scared of reviews on internet like "I couldn't get help with this editor online or with colleagues and I can't risk being stuck on this project so I switched to VS C…

That is not EEE. But monopolistic behavior.

Yeah, I mean it keeps on adding to the list of complaints and M$ won't budge.

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#92

I remember when the FSF had dire warnings about using the Sun JDK. I ignored it and kept on using Java, and nothing bad happened. The JDK was eventually GPLed, and by then I decided I didn't like Java anymore and moved on to better languages anyway. I feel kind of the same about VS Code. Binary product? Telemetry? Centralized marketplace? Some plugins are closed source? Eh, whatever. That stuff doesn't get in my way…

If you use oracle's java, it's not as easy as you present it at all.

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#93
post #55

I remember when the FSF had dire warnings about using the Sun JDK. I ignored it and kept on using Java, and nothing bad happened. The JDK was eventually GPLed, and by then I decided I didn't like Java anymore and moved on to better languages anyway. I feel kind of the same about VS Code. Binary product? Telemetry? Centralized marketplace? Some plugins are closed source? Eh, whatever. That stuff doesn't get in my way…

I wonder did the drive behind people creating open source JDKs have nothing to do with Sun open sourcing theirs? I wonder in an alternative world where Sun locked down Java as hard as possible and sued anyone and everyone, would they not have been bought by Oracle? Are we sure that an editor will be able to displace VS Code in the future, if it's given away for free and so feature-packed? Browsers are another example…

They did not sue as such, but never provided Apache Harmony with their TCK compliance test suite.

Oracle haters worshiping Sun, keep forgeting Java was only free beer until Java 6. Sun went bankrupt shortly after Java 6 (which still had a couple of comercial stuff like Swing fonts rendering engine), and only Java 7 released after Oracle's acquisition was fully open source.

Given that no one else bothered to acquire Sun, Java would have died with Java 6, partially open source.

Maybe Apache Harmony would kept going at it, but I don't expect the amount of language changes, JIT or GC improvements to happen as they did.

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#94

This is a good summary of the playing field, but I think they're way overblowing the panic In summary Microsoft has: - Made an incredibly good web-based code editor which is 100% OSS, no strings attached - Made an extensions repository and a bunch of really high quality first-party extensions that have restricted licenses Sure, in a perfect world the whole thing would be fully OSS. But in the worst-case, where people…

> but I think they're way overblowing the panic I think some concern is warranted simply because few people are aware that the default VS Code distribution has spyware and proprietary addons in it, and you do need to use something else if you prefer a fully FLOSS ecosystem.

I love how some of the haters suggest using JetBrains products instead, as if they were any different.

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#95

I had to use VS Code it briefly for a class, and was kind of shocked by the telemetry stuff, and that it's just ignore-accepted by both the students and the instructors. But what turned me off more was this janky feeling around the whole application, something I don't remember experiencing in many other Microsoft tools, such as VB. It feels like it was designed from the code up rather than from the interface down, an…

The same students and the instructors that usually used Chromebooks?

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#96

Microsoft can’t seem to kick the old Microsoft no matter how hard they try. They embraced, extended, and now are extinguishing with the python extension.

It is not EEE. But monopolistic and capitalistic behavior. It is impossible for companies to shake that off.

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#97
post #54

Holy hell, this blog is virtually unreadable. Article content aside, the fact that after pretty much every single paragraph there's 1-2 giant links to some other article and/or an ad is just infurianting and makes it impossible to focus. I stopped reading after the first few and will be adding this site to my blocklist.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this, I actually gave up reading it halfway through because the ads fracture the content far too much - it just doesn't flow.

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#98
post #25

one of the most "game of thrones" moves ever is the Julia Liuson promotion for DevDiv. i'm just a rando outsider so I have no context at all (in particular i dont wanna discount Julia's achievements), but just from the outside Nat seemed to be set to run devdiv and potentially be future Microsoft CEO . I respect that that is a very different job than probably what Nat wanted anyway. Just seemed like the rare "tech ex…

With all respect, Nat is not a Satya. And Microsoft is a lot more than just DevDiv.

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#99
post #85

I don't really understand this post. I'm a supporter of open source and free software and I can also understand wanting to avoid vendor lock-in. However I don't understand how this is Microsoft's fault for building closed source tooling. I'm upset with Microsoft's hypocritical stance on .NET and C# being open source without all tooling being open source as well but when it comes to useful tooling like Codespaces, Pyl…

It is an App Store monopoly problem. Take Google Android as a counterpart. Android Open Source Project = VS Code (MIT codebase( Android at Samsung and dozens other = VS Code with Microsoft EULA Enforced Play Store in vendor phones = VS Code Extension Market Place (not accessible to any other competition) Google offering dominant services = Microsoft Language Packages (both proprietary => user lock in) Google abusing…

A major material difference is that unlike phone world wherein a duopoly controls the market and supply chain is also similarly locked. We have a very functional ecosystem of competing products. I can choose to use IntelliJ, Eclipse, Vim, Emacs ... without completely disrupting my life.

Tomorrow Intellij may decide to launch paid LSPs for Java/Go/... and MS is already using same components for VSCode and Visual Studio. Or author of GitLens can port his plugin to Intellij or Eclipse

Re: Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture

#100

Even developers are taken for a ride. Just like WhatsApp and Chrome, it all comes down to ripple effects of "If others didn't use it, I can't". I have given a number of examples of this stubborn sticky monopoly below. Every newbie while learning to code: scared of reviews on internet like "I couldn't get help with this editor online or with colleagues and I can't risk being stuck on this project so I switched to VS C…

> VStudio is best IDE but to with a secret tunnel to nefarious practices to use when needed[ like telemetry + closed source extensions + Heavy + slow + whatnot!]

It’s telling that you needed help from “whatnot” to pad out this list.

In what world is “Heavy + slow” a nefarious practice? Even assuming this is true, all of us have written software that was far from perfect. There wasn’t anything nefarious about either situation, it was only people trying to ship software under time constraints. That you ascribe evil intentions to some software being slow says more about you than them.

Telemetry - so much digital ink has been spilled on this. Not one person I’ve asked can actually explain what’s wrong with this. What would actually go wrong if performance and usage metrics are sent to their server. “But they can be deanonymized!” Ok, let’s assume they can. Now we know it takes your computer 40ms to load the side bar, 20ms to create a new in-built terminal, and the version control screen crashes every time you open it. What now? How does this actually change anything?

You folks complaining about telemetry think your job is done when you say “telemetry is nefarious”. But I can’t see a path for exploitation of this data in any way. No doubt you’ll tell us how. When doing so, please let’s assume that Microsoft is compliant with GDPR.

Lastly closed source extensions - OP makes a compelling case that this is how we’ll end up with just one online editor. Yeah, I definitely see it. That’s the one thing I’ve been convinced of.

Post reply on HN