Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mikhail Gorbachev has died

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 971 posts

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#451

Post by duxup »

Beltalowda wrote: post #86
duxup wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The locals in power have to want to do it too. As soon as enough don’t want it, it is over. I’m skeptical of the idea that you can impose Democracy.

You can't impose democracy, but if democracy and associated ideas such as the free market spectacularly fails the people – as it did in the 90s – then that certainly doesn't help. We probably could have done a thing or two to make it fail less . Would that have made a meaningful difference? Hard to say for sure, but it would have been worth to try.

What could be done from the outside that would stop the corruption and etc?

I those elected choose to be corrupt, undemocratic, I'm not sure much could be done from the outside.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#452

Post by [deleted] »

hypersoar wrote: post #431
eloy wrote: post #20

RIP Gorbachev, one of the few genuinely good people in politics. After he retired from politics, he was featured in several advertisements: - In 1994 for Apple Computer: https://www.upi.com/Archives/1994/10/07/The-first-advertisem... - In 1998 for Pizza Hut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorbachev_Pizza_Hut_commercial - In 2000 for the ÖBB, the Austrian railways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLscz8kEg6c - In 2007…

I saw that Pizza Hut commercial earlier today and I can't stop thinking about it. It has so much going on. It's the victory of capitalism over Soviet communism, the rise of neoliberalism to global hegemony, and the "End of History" in the form of a 30-second ad for pizza.

[deleted]

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#453

Post by justsomehnguy »

filoleg wrote: post #429
justsomehnguy wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Four point locks and steel doors were the norm for apartments and houses (and that didn't always help). Because whose who installed them of course now knew where are someone with something worth protecting with a steel doors.

It wasn't only for the rich and wealthy (or those who had anything valuable at all) even in the slightest in some of the Eastern European countries at that time. If you look at houses in Compton and see metal bars on the windows, you don't instantly think "man, they must have lots of expensive stuff to steal". Kind of the same deal here.

Yeah, and guys who were installing these doors were blindfolded and couldn't see what the stuff the owner of the apartment had.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#454

Post by bee_rider »

LtWorf wrote: post #266
ajross wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Western-driven reconstruction was] complete disaster for both your average Russian person I think that's overstating the case. In fact the "average Russian person" was living in destitute poverty through most of the cold war, and none of that meaningfully changed with the advent of a market economy. Except that Russians of the 2000's could get eat better food and watch (much) better TV. It's absolutely true that m…

Check life expectancy of russians… it is not the same… it has gone worse.

I tried googling

Search Term : Result

Life expectancy Russia 1990 : 68.89

Life expectancy Russia 2019 : 73.08

For reference, in the US:

Life expectancy US 1990 : 75.21

Life expectancy US 2019 : 78.79

I dunno nothing really stands out. It looks like Russians benefited a little bit more, but Americans were starting from a higher baseline so it makes sense that gains would be harder to come by.

2019 was selected rather than 2021 for obvious reasons.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#455

Post by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs »

lapcat wrote: post #22

The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet…

No post body was provided.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#456

Post by throw123123123 »

duxup wrote: post #55
lapcat wrote: post #22

The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet…

The locals in power have to want to do it too. As soon as enough don’t want it, it is over. I’m skeptical of the idea that you can impose Democracy.

All political systems are imposed, pragmatically and theoretically.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#457

Post by filoleg »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #453
filoleg wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't only for the rich and wealthy (or those who had anything valuable at all) even in the slightest in some of the Eastern European countries at that time. If you look at houses in Compton and see metal bars on the windows, you don't instantly think "man, they must have lots of expensive stuff to steal". Kind of the same deal here.

Yeah, and guys who were installing these doors were blindfolded and couldn't see what the stuff the owner of the apartment had.

Do you genuinely believe that people in eastern europe at the time were so oblivious and naive? I can bet you that on average, they were way more cautious and aware of their surroundings than modern people living in the west are.

For once, I don't think that they would consider leaving all of their valuables in front of the front door where everything is visible. Unless installing the front door includes rummaging through the entire apartment, all while the person living there is just standing and smiling. Which, I assure you, isn't how it usually goes.

And I am not trying to make it as some attack on people living in the west, I am one of them now myself. It speaks more about how safe and comfortable the modern western life can be, compared to what it was in those eastern european countries back then, that we can afford to be so oblivious to our surroundings and so much less cautious.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#458

Post by thrown_22 »

paganel wrote: post #221
lapcat wrote: post #22

The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet…

> There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War l There was such a plan, at least in the twisted minds of the people behind the Washington Consensus. They were calling it privatization or price liberalization or some other non-sense like that, thing is the common people got the very, very short stick (like my parents, who lost their jobs, their city apartment and who had to resort to literally subsistence agricultu…

There was no such plan, there was the pillaging of Russia. Something so blatant even the small amounts of US capital used to facilitate it were stolen by Andrei Shleifer and the rest of the Harvard Board:

>In August 2005, Harvard University, Shleifer and the Department of Justice reached an agreement under which the university paid $26.5 million to settle the five-year-old lawsuit. Shleifer was also responsible for paying $2 million worth of damages, though he did not admit any wrongdoing.[10][16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Shleifer#Scandal

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#459

Post by kingkawn »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #379
karaterobot wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the suggestion about learning about the occupation. To be clear: my statement wasn't that the U.S. did nothing, but that there is no amount they could have done which would force Japan to succeed against their will, or their own ability. There are many examples of the U.S. putting its thumb on the scale, so to speak, in countries where there was not a subsequent, successful democratic transition. The diffe…

I see what you mean. I guess we'll never know. Because there was a remaking of Japanese society after the war in a democratic image. That just doesn't even appear as though it was attempted in post Soviet Russia. I don't kmow the origins of why America departed from its usual course of propping up the traditional land owning and wealthy bourgeoisie classes in it' s occupation of Japan. I know FDR personally held very…

Japanese militarist imperial culture has mostly remained intact in the corporate workplace. Other than brief political forays Japan has had one party rule at the national level for long stretches of time. They recognized their strategic position and adapted. When the convenience of a US umbrella fades the old face will re-emerge.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#460

Post by quickthrower2 »

RichardCNormos wrote: post #5

Paraphrasing President Reagan: The Moscow police are notoriously strict when it comes to speeding. One day, Gorbachev and his driver are going to a meeting, and they are running late. Gorbachev admonishes the driver to go faster, but his driver refuses. Finally, Gorbachev says, "Fine! Pull over! I will drive." Gorbachev starts speeding through the streets of Moscow with his driver in the back seat. They are pulled ov…

Heard this joke before, but in Ireland (for some reason?) and the Pope is the driver.
Post reply on HN