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Advantages of CRT over LCD

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Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#51

Post by grumbel »

Dalewyn wrote: post #27
Veliladon wrote: post #2

The biggest advantage is that CRTs can have variable geometry pixels which match a lot of older resolutions and aspect ratios. While it's a lot easier to deal with non-square pixels on higher resolution displays (i.e. 1600x1200 can properly emulate a 1.2:1 rectangular pixel of a 320x200 display) CRTs still have effectively infinitely variable shaped pixels.

LCDs and their ineptitude with non native resolutions deeply annoys me. Sure, pixels in an LCD are fixed, but even resolutions that are multiples of 2 of their native resolution look like crap. 4K monitor? Surely it can handle 1080p, it's just dividing by 2; four physical pixels for one logical pixel, right? Nope! Looks like horseshit. Seemingly LCD monitors can't divide by 2. CRTs can handle any resolution within th…

Modern graphics driver finally have the ability to do integer scaling[1][2], but they only learned that a few years ago. There are also some TVs[3] that can do it, but to my knowledge it's still an extremely rare feature, despite being so simple.

Sharp-Bilinear[4] is also worth a mention, this is only available for some emulators, but allows integer-scaling-like quality without being restricted to exact multiple of the resolution.

[1] https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/dh3-034

[2] https://www.nvidia.com/content/Control-Panel-Help/vLatest/en...

[3] https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67116

[4] https://github.com/rsn8887/Sharp-Bilinear-Shaders/blob/maste...

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#52

Post by omerhj »

bironran wrote: post #17

The biggest advantage of CRT is that my cat could sit on one. He would be drawn to that heat generating machine, lay on top of it with his fore legs dangling over the edge of the screen and snooze while I played whatever video game was the current hit well into the night. I miss that cat-butt-warmer. I miss my cat too.

One of my cats loved snoozing on my big 19" CRT as well. When I replaced the CRT with my first LCD monitor, he tried to hop onto the non-existent top of the screen. In a mad scramble to not fall he put all of his front claws in the plastic cover of the screen. The LCD went from zero to hundreds of bad pixels within a day :-(

I still miss that cat too.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#53

Post by caseyavila »

system2 wrote: post #26
greenn wrote: post #5

In the Super Smash Bros. Melee competitive scene we still use CRTs for in-person tournaments because of the input lag on LCDs. Most original hardware available to play the game doesn't have a digital display output unless you have an early model GameCube and purchase a ~$100 HDMI adapter. Even if you get the hardware setup for modern digital output, most LCD monitors still have poor response times without spending th…

I can't think of anything else than some arcade games requiring the lowest possible latency. People are okay with 50 ping games so 2 ms really doesn't matter to most players.

The traditional way to play melee is local multiplayer only, so players most players are used to the incredibly fast response of a CRT. This and the muscle memory required to play at a high level makes LCD monitors (and especially TV's) noticeable.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#54

Post by some-guy »

rocky1138 wrote: post #36

I would love to see modern CRTs but we have to be honest with ourselves about the negative environmental side with their lead components. Perhaps we could build a more environmentally friendly CRT with our processes nowadays.

In addition to this, once OLED monitors for PCs (or similar) become commonplace, a lot of the complaints I had about LCD/LED are no longer relevant. My LG CX looks absolutely stunning, and the input lag is unnoticable.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#55

Post by hulitu »

agumonkey wrote: post #16
pcdoodle wrote: post #13

I think CRTs let your brain do some antialiasing so free details. I have some old 600mb divx rips that still look pretty damn good when viewed on a CRT.

I had the exact same realization when testing my beloved diamondpro, the image was just nicer, warmer .. it was shocking.

It's also because LCDs cannot display collours as good as CRTs. Only the latest HDRs come close.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#56

Post by throwaway09223 »

system2 wrote: post #26
greenn wrote: post #5

In the Super Smash Bros. Melee competitive scene we still use CRTs for in-person tournaments because of the input lag on LCDs. Most original hardware available to play the game doesn't have a digital display output unless you have an early model GameCube and purchase a ~$100 HDMI adapter. Even if you get the hardware setup for modern digital output, most LCD monitors still have poor response times without spending th…

I can't think of anything else than some arcade games requiring the lowest possible latency. People are okay with 50 ping games so 2 ms really doesn't matter to most players.

50ms network latency is not the same thing as 50ms controller to display latency.

If your network latency is 50ms, you still have extremely low, almost zero latency for most operations like using the mouse to change the look direction.

50ms display latency would make a modern FPS utterly unplayable.

Games like SSB are extremely latency dependent.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#57

Post by LocalH »

pcdoodle wrote: post #13

I think CRTs let your brain do some antialiasing so free details. I have some old 600mb divx rips that still look pretty damn good when viewed on a CRT.

Not your brain so much, but the combination of the non-mapping of phosphors to pixels, and the fact that the electron beam ramps up and down, rather than instantly turning on or off, causes the pixels to be softened, moreso across a scanline than between them.

Your brain helps too, but in the same way that it helps with every color display device that uses RGB or some variant. Get close enough and you can perceive the individual phosphors or subpixels in either case.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#58

Post by hammyhavoc »

vbezhenar wrote: post #49
rocky1138 wrote: post #36

I would love to see modern CRTs but we have to be honest with ourselves about the negative environmental side with their lead components. Perhaps we could build a more environmentally friendly CRT with our processes nowadays.

It’ll be very niche gadget so who cares about environment.

You'd think that about mechanical keyboards too, but there you go.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#59

Post by system2 »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #56
system2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of anything else than some arcade games requiring the lowest possible latency. People are okay with 50 ping games so 2 ms really doesn't matter to most players.

50ms network latency is not the same thing as 50ms controller to display latency. If your network latency is 50ms, you still have extremely low, almost zero latency for most operations like using the mouse to change the look direction. 50ms display latency would make a modern FPS utterly unplayable. Games like SSB are extremely latency dependent.

My point is, it is not worth to change the whole lcd technology just for games like ssb. Which is probably 1ms latency for lcd is enough.

Re: Advantages of CRT over LCD

#60

Post by tinus_hn »

cannam wrote: post #35

I can't imagine loving a monitor the way I loved my iiyama Vision Master Pro. 1600x1200 at 71Hz driven from a Matrox Millennium (4MB VRAM and no 3D acceleration whatsoever) with soft-edged pixels and no visible grain or mesh. It was by far the best computer-related object I had ever owned. But that would be so impractical now, given its bulk and what else is available. We actually still have a CRT as our main TV here…

Be aware of the energy you are wasting, a modern tv uses much less power than a crt.
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