Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
1–10 of 101 posts
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#2For an article with this headline, it's rather surprising that it never says why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness.
Here's why, I think: because Stephen Fry is, among other things, a comedian. And comedians are highly sensitive to political correctness and its ills. They are the canaries in the coal mine of wokeness.
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#3> "I'm very, very... I won't say dreading, but I'm, hmm, somewhat tentative about this whole thing
That's the problem. Shaming and shunning is an ancient technique for punishing transgressors, but social media enables it to be applied too broadly. All transgressions are put on full blast. If I were a full on Nazi I would get the same treatment as I would if expressed that I'm glad my son doesn't want to be a girl. It gets tiresome, shuts down free speech and punishes people who don't deserve it. It allows otherwise powerless people to become powerful in their faux outrage and hurt others that don't deserve it in the process.
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#4For an article with this headline, it's rather surprising that it never says why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness. Here's why, I think: because Stephen Fry is, among other things, a comedian. And comedians are highly sensitive to political correctness and its ills. They are the canaries in the coal mine of wokeness.
It's not effective: from the article:
> it's po-faced, sanctimonious, self-righteous occasionally ... it's not effective.
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#5> "I'm very, very... I won't say dreading, but I'm, hmm, somewhat tentative about this whole thing That's the problem. Shaming and shunning is an ancient technique for punishing transgressors, but social media enables it to be applied too broadly. All transgressions are put on full blast. If I were a full on Nazi I would get the same treatment as I would if expressed that I'm glad my son doesn't want to be a girl. It…
> "I'm very, very... I won't say dreading, but I'm, hmm, somewhat tentative about this whole thing. I don't think Jordan Peterson is a man with whom I necessarily share an enormous amount of, you know…
I don't know, an I'm an enormous fan of both men.
Both are academic types, Peterson has a love for the natural world, Fry for history.
They both believe in values - Peterson focusing on self-discipline, Fry on kindness.
The only thing I can work out that's different is that some people have decided that Peterson is evil for not supporting compelled speech, or acknowledging humans are animals, or some other nonsense - Fry could absolutely be in Peterson's position if the cards had fallen differently.
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#6For an article with this headline, it's rather surprising that it never says why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness. Here's why, I think: because Stephen Fry is, among other things, a comedian. And comedians are highly sensitive to political correctness and its ills. They are the canaries in the coal mine of wokeness.
It's not effective: from the article: > it's po-faced, sanctimonious, self-righteous occasionally ... it's not effective.
That's the argument he's making. It's not why he's making the argument.
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#7Are there any examples of discussions or arguments having to do with political correctness that are actually thought-provoking? Seems like it's always the same ideas that come up whether the people involved are for it or not.
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#8> "I'm very, very... I won't say dreading, but I'm, hmm, somewhat tentative about this whole thing That's the problem. Shaming and shunning is an ancient technique for punishing transgressors, but social media enables it to be applied too broadly. All transgressions are put on full blast. If I were a full on Nazi I would get the same treatment as I would if expressed that I'm glad my son doesn't want to be a girl. It…
I left social media 5 years ago, and haven't looked back. Facebook, Twitter, and especially LinkedIn, because I don't want the mob to know where I work. Let them find an easier target.
It became a liability, because of just how mercurial the outrage mob is. They will dig up something you said 15 years ago, or something your father said, and you'll lose your job because of it.
The only exception is HN, which I use under an assumed name, because I can't bring myself to leave you all :-)
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#9Are there any examples of discussions or arguments having to do with political correctness that are actually thought-provoking? Seems like it's always the same ideas that come up whether the people involved are for it or not.
What are the arguments you've heard? I'm sure there are some you haven't.
Re: Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness (2018)
#10For an article with this headline, it's rather surprising that it never says why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness. Here's why, I think: because Stephen Fry is, among other things, a comedian. And comedians are highly sensitive to political correctness and its ills. They are the canaries in the coal mine of wokeness.
I think he's arguing from the most superficial level. That shaming people for things like use of language is ineffective at actually convincing them to change their minds. FWIW, I think he's actually wrong. Just by observing my kids and their school-aged peers, they are incredibly accepting of different types of people and lifestyles without a second thought. And they enforce "political correctness" of speech without being told because they understand the principles of why it's wrong. When I was a kid "gay" was one of our go-to pejoratives for almost anything uncool. With my kid's cohort, it's not acceptable because they don't think being gay is insulting. This is obviously anecdotal, but I've heard the same from lots of other parents. If enforcing language wasn't effective at changing minds, propagandists wouldn't make such strong use of it.