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Microformats Wiki

microformats.org

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Re: Microformats Wiki

#41

Post by indymike »

colonwqbang wrote: post #39
chrisoverzero wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HTML Standard disagrees: > […] authors are encouraged to use values that describe the nature of the content, rather than values that describe the desired presentation of the content. [*]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#global-attri...

What possible benefit can come from doing this, except to appease the standard writers? Describing the presentation of content is the sole purpose of CSS. I don't see why it should matter to anyone except the author herself what names are chosen for the presentation rules.

Accessibility for disabled users count?

Re: Microformats Wiki

#42

Post by T3RMINATED »

dang wrote: post #13

Related: Microformats: Still Relevant? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32285207 - July 2022 (1 comment) Google confirms microformats are still a supported metadata format for content - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22521666 - March 2020 (40 comments) Ask HN: Is it worth it to implement HTML5 microformats? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14515178 - June 2017 (1 comment) Microformats are easy to le…

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Re: Microformats Wiki

#43

Post by indymike »

euroderf wrote: post #32
epeus wrote: post #21

Both Mastodon and Tumblr have microformats support built in. Twitter and Facebook used to, but they decided they'd rather be silos than protocols

Can you expand on this ? I'd be more impressed by microformats if the microformats website could parse a DTD or schema and launch a structured editor for it.

Microformats are basically guidance for scraoers.

Re: Microformats Wiki

#44

Post by lloydatkinson »

cxr wrote: post #6

PSA: the best way to enable Microformat-like stuff with almost no effort is to keep describing content with reasonable class names even if you never pay any special attention to the microformats.org standards. One unfortunate side effect of things like Tailwind CSS is that some folks with a single-minded focus on looks are now using only the Tailwind class names, but you can do both. If before you'd have written some…

> One unfortunate side effect of things like Tailwind CSS is that some folks with a single-minded focus on looks are now using only the Tailwind class names, but you can do both. If before you'd have written something like class="video-thumbnail" and styled the content with a class selector in your CSS, but now you've adopted Tailwind and have excised all the descriptive class name from the content

Are you really suggesting that people should make Cascading Style Sheets do more than styling? We have literal entire specs for using correct attributes for accessibility and microformats. WAI, ARIA, and so on.

Furthermore, from the authors of Tailwind, Headless UIhttps://headlessui.com/ is a collection of fully unstyled logic components with their primary concern being accessibility (done correctly, with aforementioned attributes, not random class names). At no point have users or maintainers of Tailwind tried to steer people away from including accessibility or microdata in their designs.

This feels like an incredibly thinly veiled attack on Tailwind by the ever vocal anti-Tailwind interest group for something it shouldn't be doing anyway.

Re: Microformats Wiki

#45

Post by cxr »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #44
cxr wrote: post #6

PSA: the best way to enable Microformat-like stuff with almost no effort is to keep describing content with reasonable class names even if you never pay any special attention to the microformats.org standards. One unfortunate side effect of things like Tailwind CSS is that some folks with a single-minded focus on looks are now using only the Tailwind class names, but you can do both. If before you'd have written some…

> One unfortunate side effect of things like Tailwind CSS is that some folks with a single-minded focus on looks are now using only the Tailwind class names, but you can do both. If before you'd have written something like class="video-thumbnail" and styled the content with a class selector in your CSS, but now you've adopted Tailwind and have excised all the descriptive class name from the content Are you really sug…

> Are you really suggesting that people should make Cascading Style Sheets do more than styling?

No. I'm talking about the class attribute, not style sheets. The single-minded minded Web developers with a focus only on styling that I mentioned seem to have formed the belief that class names are just "a CSS thing" (or something)—and that's the problem.

> At no point have users or maintainers of Tailwind tried to steer people away from including accessibility or microdata in their designs.

K. Who're you arguing with you here?

> This feels like an incredibly thinly veiled attack on Tailwind by the ever vocal anti-Tailwind interest group

Consider that leaping to conclusions like this indicates that you might be living in a bubble. (See "single-minded focus".) I'm not part of some rival frontend gang. I don't even exist in the milieu—the world is way bigger than visual designers doing Web work who spend their discretionary time talking about the trade.

Re: Microformats Wiki

#46

Post by cxr »

nickcox wrote: post #31
chrisoverzero wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HTML Standard disagrees: > […] authors are encouraged to use values that describe the nature of the content, rather than values that describe the desired presentation of the content. [*]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#global-attri...

That ship has already sailed if you're using Tailwind though.

No it hasn't. As I said in my first comment, you can stuff your Tailwind selectors into the class list _and_ still put the content class annotations in the class attribute.

It's as easy as:
... instead of swapping out "video-thumbnail" class name with the Tailwind stuff (replacing it). They are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Microformats Wiki

#47

Post by cxr »

solardev wrote: post #30
cxr wrote: post #6

PSA: the best way to enable Microformat-like stuff with almost no effort is to keep describing content with reasonable class names even if you never pay any special attention to the microformats.org standards. One unfortunate side effect of things like Tailwind CSS is that some folks with a single-minded focus on looks are now using only the Tailwind class names, but you can do both. If before you'd have written some…

Is there any evidence this matters at all?

Aside from, uh, being affected by it? I don't know what "matters" means to you.

Re: Microformats Wiki

#48

Post by solardev »

cxr wrote: post #47
solardev wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence this matters at all?

Aside from, uh, being affected by it? I don't know what "matters" means to you.

Matters how? Microdata seems irrelevant to begin with, ignored by search engines or anything else (at least in my limited tests), and faking it with semi-semantic class names alongside auto generated ones will do what, exactly?

Like, what is this additional data layer actually for? What humans or software use it?

Re: Microformats Wiki

#49

Post by souplesse »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #44
cxr wrote: post #6

PSA: the best way to enable Microformat-like stuff with almost no effort is to keep describing content with reasonable class names even if you never pay any special attention to the microformats.org standards. One unfortunate side effect of things like Tailwind CSS is that some folks with a single-minded focus on looks are now using only the Tailwind class names, but you can do both. If before you'd have written some…

> One unfortunate side effect of things like Tailwind CSS is that some folks with a single-minded focus on looks are now using only the Tailwind class names, but you can do both. If before you'd have written something like class="video-thumbnail" and styled the content with a class selector in your CSS, but now you've adopted Tailwind and have excised all the descriptive class name from the content Are you really sug…

> Are you really suggesting that people should make Cascading Style Sheets do more than styling?

The parent made no such suggestion. You seem to be conflating the purpose of HTML classes with CSS. Here's a note from the "literal entire spec"[0], which other commenters have already pointed out:

> […] authors are encouraged to use values that describe the nature of the content, rather than values that describe the desired presentation of the content.

Furthermore, the parent took great pains not to attack Tailwind, instead pointing out that the two different approaches could easily coexist.

If you'd like to use class names solely as CSS hooks, go right ahead, but citing "correct attributes" is ironic at best.

[0]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#global-attri...

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