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Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#341

Post by alpaca128 »

ajvs wrote: post #259
weberer wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make sure the model you're getting supports S3 sleep mode (AKA real sleep mode) before hand. A lot of the newer Dells don't. Its something the OEM needs to support in the BIOS, so you can't just fix it by installing a new distro.

Since at least the 2019 model Dell XPS 13s no longer have S3 sleep mode and instead uses Microsoft's "Modern Standby" (s0ix)[1], which consumes tons of power whilst in "sleep" in order to have slightly quicker wake times. [1] https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9570-BIOS-1-3-0-sl...

> in order to have slightly quicker wake times.

Unless it pulled a breaking Windows update at night so the laptop won't boot anymore the next morning.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#343

Post by throwaway23236 »

I love my Lenovo ThinkPad. For a laptop, the keyboard is amazing and I have been using it for 4 years now without any major issue. I did have the CPU fan die on me, but with Lenovo's practically 10/10 repairability score for 40 bucks I overnighted another CPU fan, just unscrewed the back and replaced it myself.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#344

Post by ss108 »

digitalsushi wrote: post #333
hu3 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2001 I fried a Dell desktop motherboard and processor while toying with overclocking. They flown someone with brand new parts to my home, more than a 1000km away, and replaced it all no question asked. It's surreal.

In May 2020, my wife's Dell laptop blipped out during her morning coffee from an over-weekend break, and by noon there was a Dell technician sitting at a card table in our garage, 32F/0C degrees, socially isolating from any germs we could have, and he swapped motherboards inside of an hour. Incredible.

Where are you located where it's 32F in May, lol

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#345

Post by fnfjcu7 »

toberoni wrote: post #226
RL_Quine wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why people idealistically want the device but mine is really not up to being a usable production device. The wonky design of the “modules” means they’re practically useless, the hardware has almost endlessly has stability and issues with bricking, it has never once given me confidence in almost any respect. I want to love the thing and there’s nice features about the product, but I’d hesitate to suggest any…

I'm writing this with buyer's remorse on my Framework. It's a huge step down from my previous Thinkpads. The battery life is atrocious - a night in modern standby drains the battery from 80% to 35%. Outside the office battery life is a constant worry, I mostly use it docked these days. The display hinge is wobbly - when I lift my Framework from my lap on a table it often folds back 180 degrees. Very annoying. In gene…

Don't worry the new ThinkPad batteries are just as good awful.

And... It's not actually the batteries, it's just the newer CPUs. If you want good battery life on intel you simply have to downlevel the CPU as much as possible or go back a few generations to an i5. My old x260 still gets 8 hours of coding on a charge. But my recent X1 is lucky to get 3 hours.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#346

Post by PAMANOCH »

If you want lightweight alternatives to Macbooks, just beware that most of the small factor Windows laptops emit much greater fan noise comparing to M1/M2 Macs under load, although the Macs will probably reach similar levels on full load after a while. Recent platform designs target much higher power limit to achieve optimal performance, while the manufacturers keep pushing that envelope frame on sub 15" machines, creating conflicts between form and factor. Many recent Thinkpad and XPS machines have difficulties cooling the components.

I use an Alienware X17 for works including demanding graphics tasks. I know that Alienware does not have great reputation among enthusiasts, but at least for me it is pleasurable to use. Very decent build quality, sleek exterior design after lights off, amazing Cherry low-profile mechanical keyboard. On light modeling and compiling tasks there's barely any noise coming from the fan systems, and on higher load it isn't much louder comparing to M1 Max/Pro Macbooks, with performance being top-notch for sure. Overall very enjoyable experience comparing to lighter design systems, but the trade-offs are obvious too - 3kg+ weight, and the battery drains fast due to the aggressive power targets on CPU/GPU. It's clearly not for everyone, but if you need performance without workstation features (Quadro, ECC, Xeons), it's definitely worth a try.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#347

Post by fnfjcu7 »

ajvs wrote: post #269
toberoni wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm writing this with buyer's remorse on my Framework. It's a huge step down from my previous Thinkpads. The battery life is atrocious - a night in modern standby drains the battery from 80% to 35%. Outside the office battery life is a constant worry, I mostly use it docked these days. The display hinge is wobbly - when I lift my Framework from my lap on a table it often folds back 180 degrees. Very annoying. In gene…

This is because modern Intel processors don't support S3 sleep[1], they instead only have Microsoft's Deep Sleep (s0ix). The only alternative is laptops with ARM or AMD(?) processors, but I haven't got a good recommendation for one. [1] https://community.frame.work/t/linux-deep-sleep/2491/5

Lenovo offers old S3 on modern CPUs. Linux also supports the new sleep states. Get a better distro if you're having problems. This is a solved problem for like 5 years.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#348

Post by janfoeh »

Kamq wrote: post #304
janfoeh wrote: post #294

Apologies in advance for being off-topic, but — is it just my perception, or has it become increasingly common over the last year or two to end questions with _in _? I vaguely associate that with SEO spam sites, and I feel a little pinch each time I see an actual person pick up that pattern. It is as if a black hat SEO trope has invaded our consciousness.

It's common to add {year} to queries to find current answers to things. This aids in that practice.

That is precisely my point, yeah - a Google search term "hack" that has spread into common parlance, even in places where it serves no purpose.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#349

Post by eastbound »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #174

You don't say where you are located, but unless you are in one of the few places where Dell doesn't offer on-site next business day support then XPS 13 is a great laptop. Their support is amazing: "We're not sure what is causing it, but we'll send someone to replace the whole motherboard tomorrow." "OH, your currently halfway across the world on a island? No problem, we'll be there tomorrow" I really don't understand…

> then XPS 13 is a great laptop.

No, clearly not. Apart from the overheating the first experience you’ll have is opening it: You pull the screen upwards, but the hinge is too strong, so the bottom comes with the screen, and then since the handle is slippery you lose the screen and the whole block slams on the desk.

That’s on paar with the DELL experience. Pretty much everything is wrong about it.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#350

Post by pwpw »

Last year I became annoyed with some of the MacOS limitations and decided I wanted a laptop capable of running Linux.

I settled on the Thinkpad X1 Nano. It weighs less than a MacBook Air, has a matte HiDPI screen, which is great for sunlight, a built in camera shutter, and most importantly, a great keyboard experience. I also splurged and added a 5G modem. The laptop is spill and dust proof and can clearly take more of a beating than a MacBook could. It's designed to be rugged while traveling.

This laptop has been an absolute delight. It feels like nothing is in my backpack, which is a nice complement to my stronger desktop at home. The performance is good enough for my development workflow, and the battery is fine to last during my workday. The only negative I would say is that the battery life is noticeably shorter than the M1 MacBook Air I previously had, but it's not terrible. Just not amazing. The laptop runs relatively quietly, which was another factor I wanted.

I'm running Fedora Linux on it, which I've come to enjoy more than MacOS. If you're looking for a nicer laptop to rival a MacBook, you'd be hard pressed to find a better option in my opinion. I spent about $1300 in total on this laptop.

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