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Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#311

Post by snarfy »

samatman wrote: post #307
jgb1984 wrote: post #162

Laptops are all together awful. I can't imagine working on one for more than a few hours. My self built desktop blows any laptop out of the water in speed, comfort, reliability, upgrade / repair potential and ergonomics (obviously ignoring portability).

Portability is the first thing I look for in a work machine, personally. I have a nice desktop setup, 5k2k, keeb, trackball, stream deck, my laptop runs it without making any noise, slowing down, or otherwise misbehaving. I can easily drive to the manufacturer's authorized retail outlet in the event that it has problems, which has indeed happened twice over the nine laptops I've owned from this manufacturer in the la…

Where are you going with your computer to do real work? I've never used a laptop to get real work done where I need to sit for 4+ hours that wasn't a nice desk with ergonomic chair and large monitors.

The only thing I ever did with my laptops when it wasn't plugged into a docking station at a desk was surf the web, and I can do that from my phone.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#312

Post by Rebelgecko »

kzrdude wrote: post #90
kkielhofner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same boat. I’m happy I spent thousands of dollars supporting a startup with ideals. I hate that I live with it everyday. I’m building a startup and it turns out trying to build a startup literally on a startup maybe isn’t the best idea. I sincerely regret the purchase.

What are the problems with it in practice? I'd have ordered one if it was shipping to my country

From my perspective using a 12th gen on Fedora 36, which is allegedly the best supported Linux flavor (although Windows on the Framework doesn't have many of these issues so I'm considering installing it instead):

* Horrific battery life. I don't actually mind that the battery life under light usage is in the 6-7 hours neighborhood. What I do mind is that the battery life when the laptop isn't being used is abysmal. When I shut the lid, I lose 20% of the battery every day. Since I got the Framework to supplement a desktop, that really isn't acceptable. Fedora 36 doesn't do hibernate out of the box, but on OSes where that's doable battery life while inactive should be better

* The trackpad scrolling is annoyingly fast, and I haven't found a way to change it (on my mac I can just change the scroll speed under mouse settings, but Fedora doesn't expose that option)

* Speaking of the settings app, the settings app FREQUENTLY causes the laptop to lock up. This is a known issue and might only affect certain hardware configs, but it is super annoying.

* Brightness buttons don't work out of the box. Only way to use them is to disable the laptop's built in brightness sensor

* Don't love the fn key placement but maybe I'll get used to it over time

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#313

Post by Cthulhu_ »

rr888 wrote: post #300
jgb1984 wrote: post #162

Laptops are all together awful. I can't imagine working on one for more than a few hours. My self built desktop blows any laptop out of the water in speed, comfort, reliability, upgrade / repair potential and ergonomics (obviously ignoring portability).

I dont know how anyone can work all day on a 15 in screen, drives me crazy.

In practice they'll be hooked up to a display wherever someone works (office or at home), although I guess a select / elite few get to set it up in a coffee shop for a while.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#314

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tymm wrote: post #186
jgb1984 wrote: post #162

Laptops are all together awful. I can't imagine working on one for more than a few hours. My self built desktop blows any laptop out of the water in speed, comfort, reliability, upgrade / repair potential and ergonomics (obviously ignoring portability).

In terms of speed, at least when we look at mostly single-threaded work load (like most dev work is), a M2 Macbook Air is faster than every Desktop PC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like to see an updated iMac or Mac Pro, I'm sure they're on the way.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#315

Post by nrjames »

weberer wrote: post #189
NorwegianDude wrote: post #174

You don't say where you are located, but unless you are in one of the few places where Dell doesn't offer on-site next business day support then XPS 13 is a great laptop. Their support is amazing: "We're not sure what is causing it, but we'll send someone to replace the whole motherboard tomorrow." "OH, your currently halfway across the world on a island? No problem, we'll be there tomorrow" I really don't understand…

Just make sure the model you're getting supports S3 sleep mode (AKA real sleep mode) before hand. A lot of the newer Dells don't. Its something the OEM needs to support in the BIOS, so you can't just fix it by installing a new distro.

My daughter just received a school laptop that drains battery very fast when sleeping. What exactly should I look for in the BIOS to set it to real sleep mode?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#316

Post by danielvaughn »

RL_Quine wrote: post #81
Lutger wrote: post #70

I absolutely love my Framework laptop for dev. I feel the software support is also quite good, at least for Fedora which is explicitly supported. I got the DIY edition and put everything together, including installing Fedora, in under 1 hour. And I'm a really slow guy, haven't build a computer in 10 years - its too easy with framework. This laptop is really build to be repairable and modular and it does not suck at a…

I can see why people idealistically want the device but mine is really not up to being a usable production device. The wonky design of the “modules” means they’re practically useless, the hardware has almost endlessly has stability and issues with bricking, it has never once given me confidence in almost any respect. I want to love the thing and there’s nice features about the product, but I’d hesitate to suggest any…

Even though I hear reports like this, I still want to buy one. Entering the hardware market is a hell of a thing to do at this point in time, and I have to applaud their chutzpah. I'm not surprised at all that there are several data points where they don't stack up against multi-billion-dollar companies, and I'm okay with it personally.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#317

Post by Rebelgecko »

dncornholio wrote: post #139
Lutger wrote: post #70

I absolutely love my Framework laptop for dev. I feel the software support is also quite good, at least for Fedora which is explicitly supported. I got the DIY edition and put everything together, including installing Fedora, in under 1 hour. And I'm a really slow guy, haven't build a computer in 10 years - its too easy with framework. This laptop is really build to be repairable and modular and it does not suck at a…

People also are very biased towards this company which makes the laptop seem better than it is? I have doubts about the trackpad and sleep functionality. Overheating also seems to be problematic. Seems to me Framework is not mature enough yet.

FWIW, I'm pretty picky about trackpads and I think the Framework's is solid. Maybe not as good as a Macbook's, but not far behind either. Definitely with you on battery life while sleeping though.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#318

Post by ktpsns »

Thinkpad X1 (Yoga/Carbon) do great for heavy use developer laptops. I use them since the first generation, with Linux as operating system. Never had serious issues with drivers, even wacom, digitizer and auto display rotation are working nowadays, not to speak of USB-3, fingerprint sensors, etc. The whole device is a no-brainer and just works.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#319

Post by jmyeet »

zivkovicp wrote: post #137

Please excuse the long-winded answer... I have also given up on Apple, but mostly because I can't see the value in it anymore, otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory (Intel CPU models). For the past few years I used a Microsoft Surface Pro because it seemed to have good build quality and high screen resolution, but despite this I have had to replace it as part of a recall due to a graphics hardware i…

The M1/M2 Macbooks are a total game-changer. You made your switch in the Intel era. I certainly get that because it was the dark days of the pointless Touch Bar and the awful butterfly keyboard.

But now an M2 Macbook Air for $1500-2000 (depending on options) is hard to beat.

The only complaint seems to be in heat distribution. Some people use a cheap heat spreader on their desk. Apple definitely chose a stylish package over optimal thermal design. It's an issue but not a major issue.

EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#320

Post by richiebful1 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #312
kzrdude wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the problems with it in practice? I'd have ordered one if it was shipping to my country

From my perspective using a 12th gen on Fedora 36, which is allegedly the best supported Linux flavor (although Windows on the Framework doesn't have many of these issues so I'm considering installing it instead): * Horrific battery life. I don't actually mind that the battery life under light usage is in the 6-7 hours neighborhood. What I do mind is that the battery life when the laptop isn't being used is abysmal.…

Speaking of trackpad issues, I resolved mine using this utility on Fedora.

https://gitlab.com/kirbykevinson/libinput-config

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