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Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#141

Post by eqvinox »

I'm about to buy an HP EliteBook 845 G9 to replace my current 830 G5 (which has been OK, replacing it because an i7-8550U is too slow to work with an external 4K display.)

My parameters were:

  - AMD CPU
  - possibility to install 64 GB of RAM; a factory option with 64GB soldered down would be OK (but I don't think this exists)
  - Thunderbolt / USB4 support
  - Metal / "rugged" frame
  - not noticeably larger than my current 830 G5 (310x235mm)
With these parameters there isn't all that much choice left. In fact, I originally had another parameter, on-board GigE LAN port, that I ended up sacrificing.

And to find devices matching those criteria - I can highly recommend Geizhals, e.g. for the above: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=nb&sort=p&xf=14285_64%7E1482_AMD%7E... . even if you're not in the EU, their index/filtering is fantastic (though be warned, parts of it are manually collected, errors MAY slip in. The USB4/TB data is particularly iffy. I still know of no better alternative.)

Since my laptop is my primary work tool, I do generally take out a 4-year int'l next business day + accidental damage protection plan ("CarePack" in HP lingo). I have actually had reason to make use of it on my previous laptop (8470p, spilled Coke into it) - no issues in getting that fixed. Due to timing (this was during christmas) they had to come back a second time after mostly-fixing it at first; some minor parts weren't immediately available (they did get it back to working). But, this is the extra service that costs +¼ of the laptop itself — I have no idea as far as "normal" warranty handling.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#142

Post by akvadrako »

carlsborg wrote: post #89

ASUS OLED Zenbook Ryzen 5900 + Manjaro. Perf benchmarks compare to an M1 at half the price. The Wifi network card driver doesn't handle hibernates too well, so you need to disable your network manually before (Or replace the network adapter card as some have done).

There is also the ASUS Vivobook Pro 14X if you want dedicated graphics. They are not yet available, but the Vivobook Pro 14 with Ryzen 6000-series CPUs also looks interesting. Both are OLED but sadly limited to 16GB RAM. The ProArt StudioBook 16 is an option too.

I'll be getting one soon; I've not been happy with the quality of my Thinkpad and really would like to avoid Chinese products in any case.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#143

Post by ur-whale »

formerly_proven wrote: post #95

The current (2022) LG Gram come with Intel Alder Lake and dual USB4/TB4, they basically seem to be the only interesting competitors to the lightweight Apple laptops. The 14" model is 1.0 kg compared to the M1 Macbook Air at 1.3 kg. Linux compatibility is very good with current kernels (I had a few DRM/GuC restarts with 5.18, those seem to be fixed in 5.19), all hardware works out of the box. ADL-P power management is…

>The current (2022) LG Gram

I use a 16 inches 2021 model (so an 11th gen Intel CPU instead of Alder Lake) on a daily basis both at the office and on the go, running Ubuntu 20.04LTS

I really, really like it:

    - runs Linux out of the box

    - *extremely* lightweight

    - battery lasts forever even with CPU-hungry workloads, typically a full day.

    - very nice 16 inches hi-rez (2560 x 1600) screen

    - very comfortable keyboard and touchpad

    - supports an external 4k screen through USB-C without a sweat

    - super fast (especially if you install your OS on raid-0 dual SSD)

    - 4 12th gen cores (8 with hyperthreading on)

    - built-in GPU (Intel® Iris® Xe MAX Graphics) has enough oomph to run blender @ 4k with very large textured scenes
There are however two minor downsides:

    - on my specific version (I believe the 2022 models have fixed this), built-in speakers don't seem work on Linux, only windows (the earphones jack works, just not the built-in speakers which Linux can't seem to control the volume of properly)

    - when the laptop is not on a flat surface and a bit twisted, the left click on the touch pad sometimes fails.
All in all, I'd highly recommend this if - like me - you've given up on OSX in disgust and are looking for a serious dev machine.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#144

Post by SpacePortKnight »

I've seen your post as a comment before. For India, I recommend buying Dell / Lenovo if you really want on-site repairs for cheap, otherwise I recommend Asus.

I recently bought Asus Zenbook 14 Oled (12th gen) over M1 MacBook Air and I absolutely love it. It has 75Wh battery, excellent speakers and with a nice 90Hz 14inch display.

However, I can't use Fedora on it since sound over speaker doesn't work yet.

Dell's Inspiron 14 is a decent purchase for around 65k ( with on-site & accidental damage warranty )

On a side note, my gaming laptop MSI GF 65 died and I was able to walk into a service centre in Bangalore, and they literally replaced the motherboard for free and returned it in 3 weeks. The entire process was extremely simple.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#145

Post by ur-whale »

zivkovicp wrote: post #137

Please excuse the long-winded answer... I have also given up on Apple, but mostly because I can't see the value in it anymore, otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory (Intel CPU models). For the past few years I used a Microsoft Surface Pro because it seemed to have good build quality and high screen resolution, but despite this I have had to replace it as part of a recall due to a graphics hardware i…

> For 2022 I decided to buy a "gaming" laptop and switch to 100% Linux.

I researched this option before opting for an LG gram. I might research it again soon.

Would you care to share exactly what gaming laptop you picked?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#146

Post by ur-whale »

SpacePortKnight wrote: post #144

I've seen your post as a comment before. For India, I recommend buying Dell / Lenovo if you really want on-site repairs for cheap, otherwise I recommend Asus. I recently bought Asus Zenbook 14 Oled (12th gen) over M1 MacBook Air and I absolutely love it. It has 75Wh battery, excellent speakers and with a nice 90Hz 14inch display. However, I can't use Fedora on it since sound over speaker doesn't work yet. Dell's Insp…

> 14inch display.

Yeah, but for serious dev work, 14 inches is just a flat out no.

16 inch is the bare minimum and already feels cramped.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#147

Post by selfmodruntime »

ur-whale wrote: post #146
SpacePortKnight wrote: post #144

I've seen your post as a comment before. For India, I recommend buying Dell / Lenovo if you really want on-site repairs for cheap, otherwise I recommend Asus. I recently bought Asus Zenbook 14 Oled (12th gen) over M1 MacBook Air and I absolutely love it. It has 75Wh battery, excellent speakers and with a nice 90Hz 14inch display. However, I can't use Fedora on it since sound over speaker doesn't work yet. Dell's Insp…

> 14inch display. Yeah, but for serious dev work, 14 inches is just a flat out no. 16 inch is the bare minimum and already feels cramped.

Serious dev work is not done mostly on a small screen. Your laptop is a moveable computer that will be connected to your workstation monitor. I own a 14 inch macbook and rarely use it without a display.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#148

Post by BatteryMountain »

Dell Latitudes are pretty great for mid-range and very affordable. You get tons of ports, a FHD screen in 14" variant, nvme ssd + tons of ram, plus you get service manuals for the hardware. Dell has pretty good support in most countries. Also, the UEFI/BIOS is actually pretty great, it gives you tons of control over the hardware! If you keep it plugged in most of the time and switch off battery savings and so on, it is quite a beast. I tend to run mine in the middle mode where it doesn't use turboboost but also doesn't down clock it too much, thus the fans are silent and the machine still very fast. Very happy with mine.

If you are forced to pick between Dell and Lenovo, take the Dell. Skip all the other brands/model variants (even from Dell) as they are more consumer oriented (better speakers but no gigabit lan port...). If you need something with a beefy gfx card, then rather buy an Asus gaming laptop, but they tend to be heavy and noisy but packs quite a punch.

If you are going to use Linux on it and value your sanity, do not take one with an nvidia chip (intel/amd chips works out of the box). If you were solely going to use windows, prefer one with an nvidia chip. If you can get a Ryzen 5/7 -based laptop at a good price, take it instead of an i5/i7.

Lastly, most manufacturers, including Dell, usually use very basic OEM ram and ssd's and wifi chips. So it is worthwhile to swap out your ram with faster and bigger ram sticks, make sure they run in dual channel (so rather buy 2x16gb instead of 1x32gb), and buy a proper nvme ssd (I typically go for one of the samsung ones with 5 year warranty).

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#149

Post by Gatsky »

cranium wrote: post #119

I'm a happy owner of a Dell Precision 5520 that is already 5 years old. It shipped with a Ubuntu LTS by default and I took a 3-year next day repair warranty that I used once for a swollen battery. I cannot express how happy I was to have my laptop repaired in less than an hour in my kitchen by a Dell certified technician. Given how dependent I am on my computer for work, if I had to send it I would have lost at least…

Not sure I want a new laptop where the battery swells up within 3 years.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?

#150

Post by GekkePrutser »

akvadrako wrote: post #134
mdp2021 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you know the product (frame.work) well: how does one get the specifications page?! Last time I checked, they (notebookcheck.net) said it used a glossy display instead of matte; I cannot find a specifications table in the frame.work website and the closest thing I got is in the "Marketplace Parts" section, e.g. at https://frame.work/products/display-kit - where the non-trivial, simply critical detail of glossy v…

Matte displays are just glossy displays with a coating that disperses light. You can achieve the same effect by adding a layer. Something like this: https://viascreens.com/screen-protectors/framework/ However turning a matte display into a glossy one isn't possible. FYI, https://community.frame.work/t/matte-screen-please/577/114 .

It's very hard to do that without any bubbles and a real built in layer is closer to the pixels so there's less blurring. I don't think that's a great alternative for a factory matte screen.

I stick with Lenovo because they make great displays with matte that can even do touch!

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