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The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

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Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#261

Post by ryan_lane »

panzagl wrote: post #220
1_1xdev wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half measures still do _something_ They did reduce plastic pollution, as you admit. Was it the most effective regulation to pass to reduce plastic pollution by the greatest possible amount? Not at all

I was visiting San Diego soon after the fees went into effect and they were dealing with a cholera outbreak because the homeless no longer had plastic bags to defecate into. So you have a miniscule effect on plastic pollution in exchange for a large effect in a different area.

The solution to this is to provide bathrooms, not plastic bags.

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#262

Post by killyourcar »

This is the same thing as economic sanctions - it targets indiscriminately and it targets the wrong use case, but proponents will say it encourages people to press against the real problem and demand change.

Just like, say, random Cuban citizens do nothing to meaningfully harm the US, random houses in urban California aren't where water waste is worst. The real problem is agriculture and water rights that disappear if unused, encouraging farmers to pour water in a ditch so they don't lose their rights.

If you believe broad based economic sanctions work, you should believe this works under the same principles - the citizens will be so annoyed they have to deal with this they'll get the government to change.

If you don't believe this will work, then one must assume you believe broad sanctions wouldn't work either.

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#263

Post by killyourcar »

wudangmonk wrote: post #150
karaterobot wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it goes: make people feel better by imposing visible but ineffective restrictions, meanwhile allow the worst offenders to continue operating as usual. So much of environmental regulation works by acts of meaningless public guilt and contrition: cf. bans on plastic shopping bags and drinking straws. Of course I mean "works" in the sense of operation, not in the sense of success, because in the meantime thin…

I don't think they have ever added one of these useless restrictions on California yet it's been mostly posturing. They blame the lawn, and you have people peacocking about their dry lawns in an effort to gain social brownie points. I'm surprised they still blame the lawn and havent moved on to pools or something more easily associated with wealth to really try and stir the poor vs rich debate. Meanwhile even if no g…

The largest agricultural crop in the US by acre is lawn. It's not just the lawns, it's the sod fields, it's the grass seed fields, it's all the support those things need.

Lawns are incredibly wasteful, much much moreso than pools or other uses. Yes, urban water use is small compared to agricultural use, but lawns in the desert really are inexcusable.

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#264

Post by killyourcar »

panzagl wrote: post #220
1_1xdev wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half measures still do _something_ They did reduce plastic pollution, as you admit. Was it the most effective regulation to pass to reduce plastic pollution by the greatest possible amount? Not at all

I was visiting San Diego soon after the fees went into effect and they were dealing with a cholera outbreak because the homeless no longer had plastic bags to defecate into. So you have a miniscule effect on plastic pollution in exchange for a large effect in a different area.

No post body was provided.

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#265

Post by killyourcar »

RichardCNormos wrote: post #214
hadlock wrote: post #3

In a dry year agriculture uses as much as 50% of all water, urban use ranges between 8-13%. https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uploads/content/pubs/jtf/JTF... Agriculture is effectively unrestricted by law in their water use. I think we may be targeting the wrong group

Quoted post unavailable.

[flagged]

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#266

Post by dghughes »

I live on Canadian island province of PEI and we have water restrictions here too, on an island! Yes there are lots of farms here and water is a big issue. With 50% of the entire population living in the capital city and growing fast water is getting scarce.

We don't have restrictor devices her yet. Water meters were only introduced about fives years ago and paying for water has been a shock to most people.

It's not just dry places like California. The eastern US or Canada don't necessarily have all kinds of water, and an island can also run out of water.

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#267

Post by claaams »

hadlock wrote: post #3

In a dry year agriculture uses as much as 50% of all water, urban use ranges between 8-13%. https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uploads/content/pubs/jtf/JTF... Agriculture is effectively unrestricted by law in their water use. I think we may be targeting the wrong group

Can we also restrict golf courses too please?

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#268

Post by WalterBright »

California resorts to rationing. Nobody seems to understand how supply & demand works (and that it can't be repealed). Rationing means half the people will get more than they need, half will get less.

To reduce water consumption, raise the price.

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#269

Post by samatman »

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #259
wudangmonk wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they have ever added one of these useless restrictions on California yet it's been mostly posturing. They blame the lawn, and you have people peacocking about their dry lawns in an effort to gain social brownie points. I'm surprised they still blame the lawn and havent moved on to pools or something more easily associated with wealth to really try and stir the poor vs rich debate. Meanwhile even if no g…

Agricultural use of water is actually productive though. Most of us prefer having food to starving. Having a lush, green front lawn in the desert however helps no one (and actively harms the natural plants and animals that belong in a given climate). Additionally, while some water issues are over very large areas (eg, piping water from Colorado River to LA) lots of places have far more local water issues, where a giv…

If you ever drive through the part of the Imperial Valley which is just artichokes, you'll viscerally get the point I'm about to make: you shouldn't be deciding whether square miles of artichokes are a more productive use of water than someone's lawn. No one is starving without artichokes, lawns make people happy.

We solve this kind of problem with markets, or in California's case, we flagrantly ignore the solution and start fucking with people's supply.

Re: The fight against drought in California has a new tool: The restrictor

#270

Post by CodeWriter23 »

mikestew wrote: post #69
ars wrote: post #2

I wonder what it will take for people to start leaving the state. And it's going to be the wealthy who leave first.

I’m approaching retirement age, and that’s been the fantasy of many for as long as I’ve been alive: CA either falls into the ocean, or people leave it in droves. And yet for all its problems, the population of CA keeps going up. Even if people leave, someone else is more than willing to take their place.

Population declines for 2nd year in CA

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/us/california-population-....

AND, there is a social ritual that has developed. We now have the "FINE, GO." cake which is shared with those departing at a say-goodbye party.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fine+go+cake&t=osx&iax=images&ia=i...

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