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D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

washingtonian.com

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Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#21

Post by RHSeeger »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #16
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously though, accountability is the missing thing. If getting banned for consistently making a mess is what it takes to get public bathrooms back, then so be it. There's no excuse for the shit I've seen. I'm tired of being denied amenities because of other peoples' degenerate behaviour.

I’m tired of people being denied basic and non-scarce resources because some people presuppose they’re yucky (even while making people yucky with those presuppositions). If we’re banning anyone from public services, I’d start with those who want to deny those services to people who most need them, in the way most likely to reinforce their biases by denying them access.

From my point of view, it's not about being "yucky", it's about ruining it for others. If a bathroom is provided, and you convert it to a state that it cannot reasonably be used by others, then you don't get to use the next one. If free food is provided for people and you come in and take it all to sell it elsewhere, then you don't get to partake anymore.

There is no way to provide things in a way that people cannot ruin them. And as long as people continue to ruin them (ie, we haven't yet "fixed society" as someone suggested above), we can either prevent those people from ruining them, or not provide them in the first place. I, for one, believe that "don't provide them in the first place" is not the right solution.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#23

Post by ravel-bar-foo »

teddyh wrote: post #11
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously though, accountability is the missing thing. If getting banned for consistently making a mess is what it takes to get public bathrooms back, then so be it. There's no excuse for the shit I've seen. I'm tired of being denied amenities because of other peoples' degenerate behaviour.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

What are the options to "improve society" so people don't make a mess in shared bathrooms? PSAs? Public shaming? Collateral put down to use bathrooms? Do you have any better and specific ideas? I can't think of much more gentle and more likely to motivate people to change behavior than a public accountability system, although it is regrettable that it must be run through a for-profit entity and look like a social credit score.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#24

Post by singhrac »

bparsons wrote: post #5

Every six months, some startup guy invents public transit, or some other amenity that has existed for over a 100 years.

I am ok with startups attempting to innovate in products that meet the needs of humans beyond wealthy tech workers; sure they deserve criticism when being discriminatory or having bad societal effects, but can we really rely on the public sector to build and deploy new technology?

I’d much rather see brainpower being spent on thinking about innovation in cleanliness than on the next “open source DataDog clone”. Let’s encourage people to go after hard but important problems (but not shy away from valid criticism, of course).

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#25

Post by xyzzyz »

teddyh wrote: post #11
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously though, accountability is the missing thing. If getting banned for consistently making a mess is what it takes to get public bathrooms back, then so be it. There's no excuse for the shit I've seen. I'm tired of being denied amenities because of other peoples' degenerate behaviour.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

The time tested way of improving society is widespread shaming and bottom up enforcement of norms. We don’t do that anymore, lest the liberties of the norm breakers are lost, and their feelings injured.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#26

Post by teddyh »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #23
teddyh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

What are the options to "improve society" so people don't make a mess in shared bathrooms? PSAs? Public shaming? Collateral put down to use bathrooms? Do you have any better and specific ideas? I can't think of much more gentle and more likely to motivate people to change behavior than a public accountability system, although it is regrettable that it must be run through a for-profit entity and look like a social cre…

Who makes a mess? People who don’t care, or who hate other people. How do we, as a society, make less of those? By investing in social programs, getting people out of poverty and drugs, civic education. Increasing the minimum wage. Eliminating wage theft. UBI.

Will any of these work? I don’t know. But this is the way. Not stricter and stricter gatekeeping.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#27

Post by xyzzyz »

RHSeeger wrote: post #21
eyelidlessness wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m tired of people being denied basic and non-scarce resources because some people presuppose they’re yucky (even while making people yucky with those presuppositions). If we’re banning anyone from public services, I’d start with those who want to deny those services to people who most need them, in the way most likely to reinforce their biases by denying them access.

From my point of view, it's not about being "yucky", it's about ruining it for others. If a bathroom is provided, and you convert it to a state that it cannot reasonably be used by others, then you don't get to use the next one. If free food is provided for people and you come in and take it all to sell it elsewhere, then you don't get to partake anymore. There is no way to provide things in a way that people cannot…

In fact, denying the courtesies and benefits to norm breakers is exactly how you improve society. That’s like raising a child: you won’t convince a toddler with a reasoned argument about empathy, the value of preserving shared norms, and the benefits of delayed gratification. Instead, you tell them that if they misbehave, they don’t get to watch TV. Bums respond to incentives too.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#28

Post by CharlesW »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #14

> QR code Um, solve the public restrooms problem for whom? Granted I’ve been living far from DC for 20 years, but I spent a large chunk of this summer there. Access to public restrooms was the same as it is here in Seattle: only a problem if you’re a street critter. People who can scan QR codes already have plenty of access to restrooms, they just need to at least suggest they’ll buy something. Homeless people and pe…

The callousness of “street critter” really hits hard.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#29

Post by rdtwo »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #14

> QR code Um, solve the public restrooms problem for whom? Granted I’ve been living far from DC for 20 years, but I spent a large chunk of this summer there. Access to public restrooms was the same as it is here in Seattle: only a problem if you’re a street critter. People who can scan QR codes already have plenty of access to restrooms, they just need to at least suggest they’ll buy something. Homeless people and pe…

There are places like small parks, playgrounds, etc can’t have bathrooms for the 99.9% because the .1% run everything

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#30

Post by rdtwo »

CharlesW wrote: post #28
eyelidlessness wrote: post #14

> QR code Um, solve the public restrooms problem for whom? Granted I’ve been living far from DC for 20 years, but I spent a large chunk of this summer there. Access to public restrooms was the same as it is here in Seattle: only a problem if you’re a street critter. People who can scan QR codes already have plenty of access to restrooms, they just need to at least suggest they’ll buy something. Homeless people and pe…

The callousness of “street critter” really hits hard.

I think that’s probably putting it nicely.
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