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Oberon (2009)

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Re: Oberon (2009)

#141

Post by Rochus »

pjmlp wrote: post #133
Rochus wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I don't know the Ulm compiler, and I unfortunately don't have System 3 (can you please provide a link with the source code and/or a working Linux binary?), but I have the source code of V2 and V4 (both ETH and Linz versions, from 1992 to Linz 1.7) where there are no coroutines.

System 3 is packaged as part of Active Oberon.

In case you're interested: I realized that I indeed already have System 3 binaries and source code in my collection; unfortunately the original links at ETH don't work anymore; but I have a physical copy of the book "The Oberon Companion" which includes a CD; I now have uploaded the CD contents to Github; here it is: https://github.com/OberonSystem3/TheOberonCompanionCD. Note that there is no Coroutines.Mod; I neither found one in the A2 sources.

Re: Oberon (2009)

#142

Post by Rochus »

tanakian wrote: post #124
Rochus wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Go can be simply characterised as a slightly stripped version of the Oberon-2 Well, not really; there are not much similarities between Oberon and Go besides the receiver syntax of Oberon-2 bound procedures (which was invented by Mössenböck btw) and the fact that both are garbage collected. In your list "removed from Oberon" you should add type inclusion (Go doesn't even have implicit coercion); there is an interse…

coroutines module comes with Oberon S3 system. also Ulm's Oberon compiler has coroutines module.

Meanwhile I found a version of the S3 source code, see https://github.com/OberonSystem3/TheOberonCompanionCD. There doesn't seem to be a coroutines module either.

Re: Oberon (2009)

#145

Post by galaxyLogic »

4bpp wrote: post #140
galaxyLogic wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the MDI was too complicated for most people. Simplicity wins. And wasn't it like an application had to implement it to use it, not part of the OS-GUI by itself? But Smalltalk "project windows" was and is truly simple. I think you can still check them out in Pharo and/or Squeak. They are not of much use to casual computer user I think. Their benefit comes when the computer is used to perform complex multi-leve…

> I think the MDI was too complicated for most people. Simplicity wins. And wasn't it like an application had to implement it to use it, not part of the OS-GUI by itself? It's true that MDI generally existed at a different level of abstraction (the "toolkit" that draws widgets rather than the "windowing system" that assigns screen regions to applications and lets them draw to those regions, while giving the user cont…

Juts to think about the difference a bit more, in MDI you could open new windows within the application-window, say multiple text-editor-windows within the MS Word application-window, if I recall.

What you could not do is open a new application-window from within the application window. And that would seem rather useless. But it would not be useless if the whole desktop worked that way, open new child-desktops from current one, recursively.

Re: Oberon (2009)

#146

Post by cfbsoftware »

whartung wrote: post #112
scroot wrote: post #51

The Oberon book (by Wirth, updated in 2013) is excellent in that it describes the entire Oberon system, from the processor on up in a single volume. https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/ProjectOberon/PO.System.pdf

For whatever reason, that PDF is incomplete. The ToC goes through Chapter 16, but the text includes only up to Chapter 9. Part 2 is: https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/ProjectOberon/PO.Applicatio... Part 3 is: https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/ProjectOberon/PO.Computer.p... A fun point about the 3rd part. If you've ever been flummoxed by the basics of floating point math, part 3 discusses the fundamentals in 2 pages wit…

I have the hardcover version of the 1992 edition. AFAICS, the 2005 version that you can download from Prof Wirth's personal site is identical to the 1992 edition except that it has an additional appendix titled "Ten Years After: From Objects to Components"

https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/

Re: Oberon (2009)

#147

Post by cfbsoftware »

slim wrote: post #35
ekidd wrote: post #27

Not only have I heard of Oberon, I've written code for it! The Oberon programming language is a nicer-than-average descendant of Pascal and Modula-2. The compiler was reasonably fast even in the 90s. The UI was strange enough to feel really interesting. As the article mentions, you could type a command anywhere and click it. And the older version I used had tiling windows, although this seems to have changed. But one…

Also the whole OS was a 1.44' bootable floppy disk which booted in 10 seconds on a 486

We now have the whole Project Oberon OS running on an Artix-7 100T FPGA without any external RAM. It just uses the 512KB of Block RAM (BRAM) on the chip itself:

https://www.astrobe.com/RISC5/Workstation.htm

Re: Oberon (2009)

#148

Post by lloydatkinson »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #22
lloydatkinson wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a controversial opinion, but I absolutely wish this was more common. It's a thing in F# as well. With JS/TS projects I always ensure the ESLint rule for only using what's been declared before is enabled. I don't want to scroll up and down a file constantly when referring to previous things that might reference something at the bottom of the file, which then references something near the top, which then refer…

I find it a non issue when you can use go to definition and go to previous position shortcuts.

There's a reason book chapters are in order...

Re: Oberon (2009)

#149

Post by scroot »

cfbsoftware wrote: post #146
whartung wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason, that PDF is incomplete. The ToC goes through Chapter 16, but the text includes only up to Chapter 9. Part 2 is: https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/ProjectOberon/PO.Applicatio... Part 3 is: https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/ProjectOberon/PO.Computer.p... A fun point about the 3rd part. If you've ever been flummoxed by the basics of floating point math, part 3 discusses the fundamentals in 2 pages wit…

I have the hardcover version of the 1992 edition. AFAICS, the 2005 version that you can download from Prof Wirth's personal site is identical to the 1992 edition except that it has an additional appendix titled "Ten Years After: From Objects to Components" https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/

Yes, but I think it's an updated 2013 version and it also includes the specification of his "RISC5" (not RISC-V, btw) processor he designed just for the purpose of running Oberon on an FPGA
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