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At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

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Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#51

Post by yeeyeeyee »

shakezula wrote: post #32
standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

Most of the time, supporters of these laws aren't brainwashed or stupid. They just prefer the status quo that these laws uphold, which tends to overlay nearly perfectly with class lines.

>Supporters say the collections are a legitimate way for states to recoup millions of taxpayer dollars spent on prisons and jails.

Wait there are supporters of this? You're telling me if I asked 100 people on the street, there'd be someone that said "oh yeah this is a pretty fair and reasonable law to charge the inmates 5-star hotel prices"??

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#52

Post by gruez »

arcticbull wrote: post #18
ryan93 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The reality is that there are so many crimes in the United States that the set itself is uncountable. There have been a number of attempts to count. I guarantee you that you have, today alone, accrued enough legal liability to put you away for the rest of your life. Part of what makes this difficult to even count in the first place are bills like the Lacey act which makes it a felony for you to violate any other coun…

>What happens is the folks who end up in prison haven't accrued any more of less liability - instead they drew attention.

>If you'd like to learn more I recommend Three Felonies a Day. [1]

It's hard to take that book seriously when the book fails to state how the average person actually commits felonies a day. According to the top critical review[1], it doesn't seem like most of the people in prisons are because of the reasons listed in the book.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R29XT1DSN5VBWK

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#53

Post by MichaelCollins »

everfree wrote: post #35
ryan93 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Hmm... The USA has a six times higher incarceration rate than Canada or the UK. Are violent crime rates really six times higher there?

Probably yes.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#54

Post by nickdothutton »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #47
nickdothutton wrote: post #21

In the UK it costs the taxpayer about $60K per year per prisoner to keep them locked up, according to official figures. However if you take the overall annual budget for the prison service and divide by the number of prisoners I think the figure is closer to $100K. I’ve often wondered what the cost might be to house that population somewhere else, somewhere less expensive, like Turkey or Greece.

Why would that occur to you?

UK prisons are overcrowded, in poor condition, expensive, and the land for those 127 prisons could be used to provide inexpensive housing for the poor here.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#55

Post by unstatusthequo »

arcticbull wrote: post #7

Every day I find new reason to believe the American penal system unconscionable. Not only is slavery permitted, the US is the subject of the ire of the United Nations over it (the ILO, specifically). For-profit prisons with state minimum occupancy clauses. Charging prisoners for their time there. And one of the highest incarceration levels and worst recidivism rates in the world. What exactly is the point of any of t…

Oh come on now. There are MUCH worse prison and criminal justice systems. Let me name a few where I’d not want to be: 1) all of Russia; 2) Sabaneta Prison, Maracaibo, Venezuela; 3) North Korean Camp 22; 4) Diyarbakir Prison, Turkey; 5) Gitarama Prison, Rwanda; 6) Gldani Prison, Georgia; 7) Ciudad Barrios Prison, El Salvador

There are many more. These above make the pay to stay seem tame in terms of impact.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#56

Post by rzazueta »

shakezula wrote: post #32
standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

Most of the time, supporters of these laws aren't brainwashed or stupid. They just prefer the status quo that these laws uphold, which tends to overlay nearly perfectly with class lines.

Or creates and reinforces those class lines.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#57

Post by tomatocracy »

dreen wrote: post #20

When I toured the Tower of London I was told this happened to many improsined in the dungeon there. People would sometimes be held indefinietely for small crimes as they wouldn't be able to pay off their initial "accomodation". It seemed an insanely unfair practice and even though I knew US prison system is fucked, I had no idea it was this bad.

Not just in the Tower - this was pretty common practice up until the mid to late Victorian era I think - eg it features in Dickens's writing to some extent.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#58

Post by wizofaus »

tmpz22 wrote: post #40
standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

There are over 2 MILLION prisoners in the US prison population of a population of 330M. This gives the USA the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. The next four? * Rwanda * Turkmenistan * El Salvador * Cuba [1]: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarcera...

Not clear how that's relevant to the comment you were replying to, unless you're suggesting that being jailed for minor controlled substance offenses is far more common in the US than the many other developed countries with similar laws?

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#59

Post by pydry »

standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

If you assume that the original intent was to find the most socially acceptable way to criminalize minorities and "social undesirables" (e.g. hippies) and go all in on it, it makes a lot more sense.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#60

Post by DisjointedHunt »

standardUser wrote: post #13

What drives me absolutely insane about stories like this is that so many of the people suffering under these policies are guilty of little more than market participation. The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. They simply can't. Countless laws, countless billions of dollars and countless ruined lives later, drugs are no less p…

Swap “drugs” for “guns” and you’d have the majority of HN flip out.

The Government isn’t a magical entity of absolute perfection. Large classes of banned substances are indeed banned for good reason. Their effects on individual/societal well being documented quite heavily.

Two things can be true at the same time: 1. Some substances that are detrimental to human health need to be controlled. 2. The US government and its present approach to enforcing laws is equally harmful and needs a complete overhaul.

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