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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about "short term screwed" is that in some countries the "screwed" is actually "people having to pay more than 100 % of their income for electricity". Theoretically, long term, this could all work out nicely and steer more people and governments towards renewables and decentralized generation, but the short term consequences are starting to look brutal.

No, we agree here. I'm not trying to minimize the impact. Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc. But we can't change that anymore. What we can do is build more capacity.

There is obviously another option that people don't want to point out - start buying Russian gas again. The idea they're resisting to sell it is wrong. There's a whole pipeline lying idle ready to go the moment sanctions are lifted.

People are acting like this is a natural crisis. It's not, it's an artificial one created by political choices. This will lead to political extremism as voters realize they are freezing or bankrupted because politicians like "standing with Ukraine" more than they like their own citizens. Not every politician will be like that. Some will say, we send weapons and it's not our war anyway. Citizens first, foreigners second. And suddenly that will be mainstream politics.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Global power transfers don't work due to losses. The physics doesn't work out.

Tell that to the proposed EuroAsia link (Greece-Cyprus-Israel) [1], or the proposed Australia-Singapore link [2]. Interconnector are getting longer and longer with each new generation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroAsia_Interconnector [2] https://www.powerengineeringint.com/smart-grid-td/td-infrast... The electrical loss through HVDC cable is approximately 3% per 1000 km of cable, far less than with AC grids.…

Exactly, just like always before: only interconnects through oceans work because otherwise one government is entrusting its fate to another. In the best case that ends with countries paying tax to other countries' governments, in the worst case that ends in war.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#303
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

even if it ran on gasoline created from carbon dioxide extracted from the atmosphere?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it costs them! Nationalisation just means the losses of the nuclear industry are born by the taxpayer, which will surface in worse services in other areas.

What I'm saying is that since production costs are stable, as long as they set a price that covers actual costs then this price control does not actually cost them money, only potential profits, so it is sustainable.

It leads to shortages instead as people find ways to arbitrage the price - buy French nuclear power cheap then export it for profit.

Fundamentally you can have high prices, shortages or you can disconnect France from the rest of the European grid but you cannot just have cheaper prices in France.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#305
post #59

AFAIK Spain prices are not "real" in the sense that gas prices have been "capped" and electricity users have to pay generation companies that use gas a variable fee to compensate that cap. Real end-user price is likely double

THIS. The compensation adds 243.57eur/MWh to the final price for Spain. https://www.omie.es/es/market-results/daily/average-final-pr...

but note that 380 EUR is still much much cheaper than other countries

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

> The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental. WTF does that mean?

It's not an (isolated) incident, it's fundamental (part of the foundation, a core part of) to energy management. What that means is that the issue is expected; it's always been an issue when dealing with energy and always will be.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#307
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Electricity isn't optional food isn't optional either. How well did nationalized food production work out? >"The market" didn't make water, or housing, or waste, or healthcare, or telecoms, etc, cheaper once privatized. I can get the source for each of those claims? Some of them seem dubious, eg. housing. Was housing ever not privatized? >In fact, it didn't make energy cheaper in the countries that privatized it. we…

Many successful governments subsidize food production and delivery in many, many ways. Your talking points are tired and debated to death; mostly by people who don't actually have much interest in learning anything and would rather invent straw-men to pwn. If you really want to challenge your view, I'm sure you can read a book that lays it out better than I could in a quick YC comment. For example, here's Chomsky's t…

You missed the step where the public institution gets broken up into many smaller private competitors who are then incentivized to provide better/cheaper service to gain marketshare. The Soviet Union missed that step too when it collapsed. Monopolies are trouble whether private or public. Unfortunately, energy markets have a tendency to be dominated by local monopolies of both the public and private variety.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#308
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

How many neighbors on a block of houses can have simultaneous charging?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#309
post #299
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always available somewhere , so it is, in fact, a transport problem.

That’s just a different problem we can’t solve, either.

Just need to wait for Putin to conquer the world and build Putin Pipes.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

even if it ran on gasoline created from carbon dioxide extracted from the atmosphere?

We don't have perfectly impact-free ways of creating energy. So using less energy to achieve the same goal is always better. And carbon dioxide is not the only pollutant that cars emit.
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