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We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

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Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#181

Post by michaelmrose »

ratsmack wrote: post #153
eis wrote: post #80

Quoted post unavailable.

>religious babble Why is religion held in such contempt when there is so much science that is just as much "babble", but held in high regard?

Basically because whereas some science will ultimately turn out to be useless malarkey ALL of religion is useless malarkey that we have been dealing with for thousands of years. Worse than not adding value such "babble" has been at various times a bulwark for all sorts of evil men and backwards looking philosophies. Some of us are tired of society being held back for the sake of old men's words given unearned weight by being backed by the weight of lies.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#182

Post by al_mandi »

nnoitra wrote: post #176
al_mandi wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're following the religion of scientism.

And what's the religious viewpoint? Some omnipotent being did it and he cares about the sexual life of humans?! That's bizarre as well, better to just say that at this point we don't know.

You're straw manning when you say things like "cares about the sexual life of humans". I highly recommend you watch this to broaden your horizons: https://youtu.be/If3cNUixEBM

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#183

Post by westcort »

staindk wrote: post #147
westcort wrote: post #69

We may not know the answer to how the universe began, but a time loop at the beginning of the universe is my favorite explanation. Gott and Li proposed this model and you can see Gott explain it elegantly here: https://youtu.be/raTqAyLikLU

Thanks for the link. I love how Gott started with simple everyday objects.

He is a great teacher and a really awesome person in general.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#184

Post by nnoitra »

al_mandi wrote: post #182
nnoitra wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's the religious viewpoint? Some omnipotent being did it and he cares about the sexual life of humans?! That's bizarre as well, better to just say that at this point we don't know.

You're straw manning when you say things like "cares about the sexual life of humans". I highly recommend you watch this to broaden your horizons: https://youtu.be/If3cNUixEBM

There is simply put no evidence for the existence of God. Neither philosophically nor rationally.

And it's not a straw man argument. God in Islam cares about foreskins and sex and if you disbelieve in him he sends you to hell for eternity.

Don't send videos tell me your arguments, you can speak for yourself.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#185

Post by throw7 »

akprasad wrote: post #66

But, after all, who knows, and who can say Whence it all came, and how creation happened? the gods themselves are later than creation, so who knows truly whence it has arisen? Whence all creation had its origin, the creator, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not, the creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven, he knows — or maybe even he does not know. -- Nasadiya Sukta ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na…

'Maybe the creator doesn't know what he created.' Meaning he suffers from dementia and forgot what he created? I suppose that's possible.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#186

Post by ben_w »

c048 wrote: post #109
egello wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about time loop is that, how and when did it began? I just can't wrap my head around something being here, there and everywhere at all times.

That's the thing about time-loops; you don't need to have a start and a beginning. There's a good movie about that concept; Interstellar.

Interstellar has one, but for that topic I'd suggest Predestination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_(film)

I'd also suggest watching it before reading that plot synopsis.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#187

Post by jackmott »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #178

“We will never know” is such a contradictory statement. On the surface, it implies the limits of our knowledge while simultaneously indicating that the author possesses the omnipotence required to know what humans will learn throughout the entirety of our future. Add it to your list of things to never write.

No post body was provided.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#188

Post by jondeval »

Victerius wrote: post #58
chiefalchemist wrote: post #49

But isn't Webb calling the BBT into question? Even if we answer how it began there is still: 1) Why? 2) What was there before that? 3) And before that? 4( And before that? And so on. It's the rabbit hole only hallucinogens can fill.

My pet theory: Something has always existed. There was no beginning. No origin. No first cause. No t=0. No start. It's always been there. What was before that? That. And that. And that. Always that. And the Second Law of Thermodynamics is not absolute and can be broken.

> My pet theory: Something has always existed. There was no beginning. No origin. No first cause. No t=0. No start. It's always been there. What was before that? That. And that. And that. Always that.

Your pet theory is the view of Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, and the Roman Catholic Church. The mistake that people make (you can even see it in this thread), is that they start with some preconceived conception of God, with all it's baggage, and then they attempt argue for, or against, this concept.

The more productive approach is to recognize and acknowledge the necessary existence of a base reality. Then you simply assign the English word 'God' as a reference pointer to this base reality.

const God = (the one base reality that exists necessarily)

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#189

Post by jackmott »

throw7 wrote: post #185
akprasad wrote: post #66

But, after all, who knows, and who can say Whence it all came, and how creation happened? the gods themselves are later than creation, so who knows truly whence it has arisen? Whence all creation had its origin, the creator, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not, the creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven, he knows — or maybe even he does not know. -- Nasadiya Sukta ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na…

'Maybe the creator doesn't know what he created.' Meaning he suffers from dementia and forgot what he created? I suppose that's possible.

No post body was provided.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#190

Post by ickelbawd »

throw7 wrote: post #185
akprasad wrote: post #66

But, after all, who knows, and who can say Whence it all came, and how creation happened? the gods themselves are later than creation, so who knows truly whence it has arisen? Whence all creation had its origin, the creator, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not, the creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven, he knows — or maybe even he does not know. -- Nasadiya Sukta ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na…

'Maybe the creator doesn't know what he created.' Meaning he suffers from dementia and forgot what he created? I suppose that's possible.

Ha, maybe.

Or perhaps creation to the creator is like breathing to us. Do you remember how many breaths you took yesterday?

Or maybe there is no creator, only a self-creation.

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