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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#221

Post by pclmulqdq »

locallost wrote: post #119
Toutouxc wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about "short term screwed" is that in some countries the "screwed" is actually "people having to pay more than 100 % of their income for electricity". Theoretically, long term, this could all work out nicely and steer more people and governments towards renewables and decentralized generation, but the short term consequences are starting to look brutal.

No, we agree here. I'm not trying to minimize the impact. Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc. But we can't change that anymore. What we can do is build more capacity.

We can also change policy to make sure we don't get into this kind of situation again. We, as a world, don't seem to want to do that.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#222

Post by tuukkah »

legulere wrote: post #189
tuukkah wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a house that is not heated by direct electricity (nor by gas), or to one where you have installed some other source of heating such as heat pumps or district heating.

What do you think the heat pump and district heating runs on? Heat pumps still need electricity and district heating is often using gas.

These don't mean you'd be completely de-risked, but your electricity bill will be a fraction of what it would be otherwise and you'll end up relatively well off.

My district heat comes from a giant heat pump that extracts energy from waste water etc. Some other typical district heat sources are biomass and coal. If it's typical to rely on gas, perhaps check that they have a plan to convert to some other energy sources if needed.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#223

Post by sofixa »

Cantinflas wrote: post #9

AFAIK Spain prices are not "real" in the sense that gas prices have been "capped" and electricity users have to pay generation companies that use gas a variable fee to compensate that cap. Real end-user price is likely double

Same in France, electricity prices are capped so hard EDF had to be renationalised due to their massive losses to maintain the cap.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#224

Post by spaceman_2020 »

number6 wrote: post #213
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany’s obsession with solar and wind is absolutely baffling. It takes very little to know that Germany simply does not have the conditions for large scale solar. Yet it was pushed so heavily in lieu of nuclear power. Absurd.

Nuclear isn't going well for France right now. And most of the EU uran comes from Russia

Yeah but nuclear fuel can be sourced from elsewhere - it does not have the steep physical barriers of nat gas. And any existing nuclear power issues can be solved.

The amount of sunlight your receive, however, will always be the same.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#225

Post by pclmulqdq »

sofixa wrote: post #212
locallost wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we agree here. I'm not trying to minimize the impact. Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc. But we can't change that anymore. What we can do is build more capacity.

> Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc Not necessarily. The same thing (forced closures of factories) was handled gracefully without job losses during the pandemic through various unemployment schemes. I see no reason why the same can't happen again.

Those schemes are responsible for tremendous inflation which is part of the reason why energy prices are high compared to incomes today. There is no free lunch.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#226

Post by AshamedCaptain »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #108
tomp wrote: post #62

To put this into context: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas I call this “the Greta curve”.

What your funny name for France, where we pay as much (if not more) than Germany for our electricity since the start of the year? More than half the country's nuclear power capacity has been shut down, mostly due to safety concerns https://nuclear-monitor.fr/#/mix .

Who is paying more for electricity in France? To my knowledge, the majority of French residential subscribe to the state-fixed "Tarif bleu", which hasn't increased price at all since February, and is still well below the German average. It is, in fact, for added ridiculousness, well below the retail prices of most of the countries we import energy from.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#227

Post by makomk »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #209
pojzon wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

Germany’s obsession with solar and wind is absolutely baffling. It takes very little to know that Germany simply does not have the conditions for large scale solar. Yet it was pushed so heavily in lieu of nuclear power. Absurd.

Meanwhile over here in the UK, the press is blaming the energy crisis partly on the fact that our government didn't spend loads of money on solar and onshore wind like Germany. We're even worse situated to benefit from solar than they are. (The renewable program here is mostly focused on offshore wind, which is the least-bad option given our geography, plus attempts at nuclear that are widely criticized by the press as wastes of money given how much cheaper onshore wind and solar are.)

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#228

Post by toast0 »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #142
google234123 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge fusion reactor in the sky that isn't available in the evening or when it's cloudy.

The sun is always shining somewhere. We need more interconnects.

When it's shining on the Pacific, there's not a lot of landmass.

The rest of the day works though.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#229

Post by number6 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #224
number6 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear isn't going well for France right now. And most of the EU uran comes from Russia

Yeah but nuclear fuel can be sourced from elsewhere - it does not have the steep physical barriers of nat gas. And any existing nuclear power issues can be solved. The amount of sunlight your receive, however, will always be the same.

How do you solve that the rivers are too hot to cool the reactors to produce more energy?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#230

Post by mandmandam »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #122
mandmandam wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many successful governments subsidize food production and delivery in many, many ways. Your talking points are tired and debated to death; mostly by people who don't actually have much interest in learning anything and would rather invent straw-men to pwn. If you really want to challenge your view, I'm sure you can read a book that lays it out better than I could in a quick YC comment. For example, here's Chomsky's t…

You talk of OP's tired points - which I agree with - then cite Chomsky... can both "stupid extreme capitalism" and "stupid surrender leftism" be put to rest finally.

I have no idea what "surrender leftism" is supposed to mean, in relation to Noam or otherwise.

However, if we'd paid a little more attention to Noam's points about war (clandestine and overt, economic and military) and the media a few decades ago, we the people would be tens of trillions of dollars better off.

Millions of brown skinned folk would still be alive, tens of millions wouldn't have had to become refugees, and South America would be immeasurably better off.

If you have some kind of beef with Chomsky I suggest you take it up with him; I hear he's quite good at responding to people.

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