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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#121

Post by hef19898 »

tomp wrote: post #47
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no clue about Czechia but that’s basically happening in Austria. Austria mainly produces energy from renewables which did not go up in price buy since the price on the exchanges is determined by the most expensive source we still pay exorbitant prices. Producers are making all the money right now.

By “producers” of course you mean “those producers that invested in sovereign energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, …)” Sounds like good investments are paying off, and bad investments (Germany collaborating with Putin despite Trump’s prescient advice & mockery) are not. Capitalism at it’s finest! Too bad average people are paying the price, but in democracy, that’s literally what they voted for (non-sensical top-dow…

To use your words, Germany already collaborated with the good old old communist USSR under Brechnev. Thing is, so, Germany isn't using Russian gas (which was delivered reliably since the 60s) to produce electricity but for heating, industry and chemicals.

Funny, I remember when we had similar discussions about negative electricity prices and people mockes those capital intensive legacy producers. Well, history is so old and context too complex to bother if polemism does as well.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#122

Post by KptMarchewa »

mandmandam wrote: post #102
gruez wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Electricity isn't optional food isn't optional either. How well did nationalized food production work out? >"The market" didn't make water, or housing, or waste, or healthcare, or telecoms, etc, cheaper once privatized. I can get the source for each of those claims? Some of them seem dubious, eg. housing. Was housing ever not privatized? >In fact, it didn't make energy cheaper in the countries that privatized it. we…

Many successful governments subsidize food production and delivery in many, many ways. Your talking points are tired and debated to death; mostly by people who don't actually have much interest in learning anything and would rather invent straw-men to pwn. If you really want to challenge your view, I'm sure you can read a book that lays it out better than I could in a quick YC comment. For example, here's Chomsky's t…

You talk of OP's tired points - which I agree with - then cite Chomsky... can both "stupid extreme capitalism" and "stupid surrender leftism" be put to rest finally.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#123

Post by ravel-bar-foo »

bitL wrote: post #100
jdross wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 cents for a megawatt of electricity is an unheard of marginal cost in any situation. your local costs in the US range from 5-25 cents per kilowatt hour (1/1000 of that), with ideal solar being the cheapest amortized at roughly 3 cents/kwh

I just cross-checked the source and the claim by one of their members of parliament was the price was 0.25CZK/MWh which is ~0.01EUR/MWh in fact.

This suggests that either the MP is incorrect, or they were misquoted, or some sort of accounting shenanigans are going on (infrastructure costs already paid for, etc.)

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#124

Post by KptMarchewa »

Tade0 wrote: post #86

Electricity map gives a more detailed view on the situation, including imports/exports: https://electricitymaps.com/ Poland has an interesting story behind the price: the government passed legislation which switched from net-metering to net-billing with the start of April, so people rushed to build as many home PV installations as possible to get grandfathered into the previous scheme. A whopping 4-5GW estimated was…

Also, we barely use gas - price is mostly driven by coal.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#125

Post by hef19898 »

google234123 wrote: post #113
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. The reasons for the energy prices have nothing to do with any European bureaucracy. If anything more investments into green energy would have put us into a better position.

The European bureaucracy is what dismantled all the old cheap energy production and forced massive investment and massive subsidies in renewable energy that can't actually cope with the real load.

Isn't the inability of nuclear plants to keep production up part of the problem? If anything, the screwed up electricity markets in Germany killed oil and gas plants by favoring flexible production costs. And there it is solar/eind followed by hydro and coal on third. Germany even built new coal plants, the latest of which didn't get a legal construction permit and thus operations oermit in the first place. Bad environmentalists, paid by Putin to push for any energy source other than gas for electricity!

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#126

Post by bitL »

dmw_ng wrote: post #111
bitL wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the time of energy crisis why would the integrated energy market be the highest priority? Is it more important to trade, or to keep economy running utilizing whatever local advantages available?

That is true, and why not also ignore the frictions created by a single currency, free movement of labour and people, or the harmonization of judicial systems during times of crisis. Surely under such strain, it is only fair that Germany no longer subsidizes Italian public debt, institute border controls for the transport of gas and oil, eventually instituting controls for all energy-derived products of any kind wher…

That sounds like a fallacy of composition. Energy market is just one part of the whole and right now a very weak part. Capping the profits/restructuring the market temporarily would benefit the whole more than keeping running the same old approach that is literally destroying the economy right now.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#127

Post by ohgodplsno »

capableweb wrote: post #7
bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.

EDF, the French electricity provider is able to produce electricity at about 20€/MWh. It is forced to sell it to leeches (read: "competition"), up to 100TWh, at 42€/MWh through a mechanism called ARENH. Should they need this 100TWh (and they do), they are forced to buy it at current market prices, or anywhere between 530 and 715€/MWh.

The "competition" are resellers that have not installed a single MW of production, essentially leading to starving what used to be the most talented and biggest energy producer in Europe, all under the pretense of the free market. The resellers are actively dropping clients so they do not have to not buy on the open market.

It is happening, and is happening with the blessing of our leaders just greasing billionaire pockets.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#128

Post by matthewmacleod »

google234123 wrote: post #115
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

A huge fusion reactor in the sky that isn't available in the evening or when it's cloudy.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation

Don't make us tap the sign.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#129

Post by whatever1 »

Nice! Feel now the benefits of marginal pricing.

Where 90% of the electricity producers make profits out of nowhere, just because some inefficient folks had to provide the 10% of missing energy.

Like Saudi Aramco and Chevron, they will post record profits, without lifting a finger.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#130

Post by looperhacks »

google234123 wrote: post #115
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

A huge fusion reactor in the sky that isn't available in the evening or when it's cloudy.

Does this matter if we could transport electricity from somewhere not cloudy or evening ... -y?
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