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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

euenergy.live

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#61

Post by chii »

gruez wrote: post #24
bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

You must have omitted something in your example because it makes no sense. >Czechs produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh so far so good. Now you have -0.1EUR and 1MWh of power. >then sell it to an exchange in Germany suppose the market price is 400EUR. after selling it to an exchange you have 399.9EUR and 0 MWh of power >and buy it back for the "market" price. so you buy it back at the market price. Now you have -0.1EUR…

the OP meant that the producer is allowed to sell to the higher priced exchange, rather than being forced to sell it at a low price to the consumer. Therefore, the OP is assuming that someone at the exchange is going to profit nicely without having done any work by arbitraging the sale of electricity.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#63

Post by bsaul »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #13
bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

That's how a market works. You say "Czechs" but it's Czech producers and Czech consumers (respectively) making those transactions. Where the market is situated is irrelevant. If you're making electricity that cheaply right now you are indeed getting rich, and so you should. The market is what is doing something about it. Prices will moderate over time as inefficient producers are pushed out and as consumers reduce th…

Rules for this market are a lot more complex than a straightforward producer / consumer one though. That give a lot of room for biased / non-optimal behaviors

For example, only gaz-based electricity producers « needs » to be paid such a high price. Nuclear or renewable would be perfectly fine with much lower price.

Or, if we had not one market, but one market per type of energy used to produce electricity, we would also have a « market driven » pricing, however the end-result would likely be much much different.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#64

Post by stuchl4n3k »

bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

It's only partly true and the difference is not that extreme. The reason for this is simple: (to my knowledge) in EU electricity is traded via central stock in Germany. See e.g. this debunk article https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/overovna-energie-elektr... (Czech national radio / in Czech)

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#66

Post by sph »

bjourne wrote: post #60

Remember that, while prices have soared, electricity generation has not become more expensive. The "electricity crisis" is a crisis for European consumers but a massive windfall for producers. This is a market failure - not an electricity failure.

Can anybody explain why that is? Why a country that generates 99+% of its own electricity like UK is seeing price increases?

Everybody blames the war, but AFAIK UK imports 1% of its gas from Russia, and its electricity is generated locally, so why are prices increasing? I would expect grain and wheat to increase 500%, not power.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#67

Post by thrwaway9871 »

capableweb wrote: post #7
bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.

Not Czech but how it works here:

* I choose energy provider x

* Friend has bought a part of those remote solar plants and also connected to provider x

* Friend sells his surplus energy to provider x at low price

* Provider x can now sell the power to:

a) His customers (me), and make next to nothing

b) Sell it to the international grid and make bank, then proceed to buy energy for me at going rates making me foot the whole bill.

Guess what happens, and who gets rich. This is market liberalization at work. You reap what you have sown.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#68

Post by locallost »

Cantinflas wrote: post #9

AFAIK Spain prices are not "real" in the sense that gas prices have been "capped" and electricity users have to pay generation companies that use gas a variable fee to compensate that cap. Real end-user price is likely double

What I understood is that Spain capped gas prices, thus reducing electricity prices. But yes, it's not real.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#69

Post by wongarsu »

biehl wrote: post #19
JohnTordur wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Germany, they have single price zone which is absolutely insane. Denmark has two and is much smaller.

It makes sense for Denmark to have two, as each of them is connected to different larger markets and have limited interconnection between each other.

It also makes sense for Germany to have at least two, since North and South are very different in terms of production and consumption but have limited interconnect. Any fix for that is endlessly blocked by NIMBYs who don't feel the cost of their decisions.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#70

Post by Tarsul »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #29
neverrroot wrote: post #20

Green without a proper plan? Germany/Europe will be the green poster children on how not to do it. Guess who will damage the environment more in the end.

No matter what magic plan anyone comes up with it would take years to implement. Nuclear, more insulation, hydrogen, new gas fields. It's almost winter already.

the magic plan should be to consume less and less and less. If we would consume 20% less, which should be absolutely doable, these problems would alleviate itself quite fast (well, we still should invest as much as we can in renewables). However, for that to happen we would need to have governments that are not afraid and act.
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