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Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

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Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#111

Post by WorldMaker »

remir wrote: post #95
MobileVet wrote: post #22

I have been waffling over the purchase of an EV for the better part of 2 years. Despite being cheap AF, the cost of ownership isn’t really at the top of my list of concerns. Mostly that is because the cars I like are far more expensive up front and make the math rough. That said, if you live in the US, the Chevy Bolt actually makes the math pretty fantastic. If they don’t raise the price at the end of the year, it wi…

The Bolt is indeed a good deal. Only negative (IMO) is the charging speed compared to other new EVs.

The other negative is that the Bolt's battery tech is now a generation (or at least a half-generation depending on how you figure dividing lines) behind compared to GM's massive investment into the multi-vehicle "Ultium" platform. That may matter for the expected service life of the Bolt (compare to GM's recent cut of service on the Spark EV, a half-generation of battery tech just prior to the Bolt; though to be fair there were a lot fewer Spark EVs on the road compared to Bolts).

I'm still confused why the recent model changes to the Bolt didn't include an "Ultium upgrade" other than to keep costs down and not associate the Bolt with the R&D depreciation of Ultium just yet. But given GM's larger commitment to the Ultium platform and number of vehicle models they are now building on it, that's one of my remaining pieces of hesitancy against current models of the Bolt and its already "legacy" platform. (Though the other big hesitancy was the "recent" recall and how that made Bolts impossible to find in dealerships for just long enough that it passed my "impulse buy" window the past couple of years.)

I hope GM realigns the Bolt to the present platform and/or starts adding smaller vehicles to the Ultium platform. (Smallest currently announced is the new Blazer which is still much larger than I want as a car.)

(I'm an "ancient" Volt owner and have been watching GM's EV projects with great interest as I'm at about the point where I'd like to replace the Volt with a proper EV, but so far GM's EV strategy still seems a bit hit-and-miss and like "next year's models" might be the ones to watch for. From my perspective, at least.)

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#112

Post by News-Dog »

WorldMaker wrote: post #107
rnk wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an accessible 120v outlet, it's extremely likely you can charge just with that. Evidence - had an ev since 2012, using only 120 volts. Only the most inefficient recent evs argue for higher voltage. The reasons 120v garage charging won't work for you: 1. You commonly drive 200+ miles, need to come home, charge, driving 200 or 300 miles almost immediately. When I need to do this I can go to a supercharger o…

Even the least efficient EVs still get some charge at 120v. One of the worst offenders only gets 1 mile per kWh so that's roughly 1 mile every hour at home. Even if your inefficient EV is only plugged in for the roughly 8 hours you need to sleep, that's still 8 more miles of range when you wake up than you had before you went to bed. A lot of people like to discount that as "basically nothing", but a gas car isn't go…

search '3-phase 220/240 volt EV charging USA' @Goo https://www.google.com/search?q='3-phase 220/240 volt EV cha...>

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#113

Post by sokoloff »

rpmw wrote: post #105
sokoloff wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even my LEAF (which has one of the worst battery management systems in terms of having passive cooling only) is 7.5 years old and has around 85% of its original capacity.

I guess I don’t understand why that’s acceptable. 15% degradation takes you from what 350 miles from full to just shy of 300. How much worse is it in the winter? None of those things happen in ICE vehicles that are much cheaper than even the cheapest BEV.

It's way worse than that. Mine is a 2015, so has only a 24kWh battery. I'm down from around 90 miles to around 75 miles. Winter is less, but not catastrophically less.

When I was in an office, it was 8 miles away. Our grocery is 1 mile away. The farthest kids' friends house is 2.7 miles away.

As proof that there's utility there: the LEAF does more miles per year than our ICE car, so it gets plenty of use, even with the severely limited range compared to higher-end EVs.

As for why it's acceptable: the car was $22K new after incentives. In 7.5 years, I've just now changed the wiper blades and cabin air filter for the second time. I turn all the wrenches on our family cars and I have literally only put a wrench or socket to the LEAF once in that time: to remove and charge the battery after we parked it for almost 8 weeks when COVID first hit and my little OBD2 Bluetooth dongle ran it down. (Wipers and cabin air are changeable without tools, as is filling the washer fluid tank.)

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#114

Post by mwint »

Fatnino wrote: post #108
rnk wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an accessible 120v outlet, it's extremely likely you can charge just with that. Evidence - had an ev since 2012, using only 120 volts. Only the most inefficient recent evs argue for higher voltage. The reasons 120v garage charging won't work for you: 1. You commonly drive 200+ miles, need to come home, charge, driving 200 or 300 miles almost immediately. When I need to do this I can go to a supercharger o…

I was recently tasked with moving a chevy bolt what was parked on the street too long to save it from being impounded. It had sat there for quite a long time and wasn't anywhere near full when it was parked. When I got it the battery was in the orange where it stops telling you how much range is left and just says find a charger. I belive this kicks in at the 15-20 miles remaining range. I moved the car about 10 mile…

This is not true. Rule of thumb is 4-5mi per hour on 120AC. I drive a Leaf and charge exclusively at home on 120AC, zero problems keeping up with my non-bicycle-friendly commute.

If I needed to I could put in a 220 charger for a couple hundred bucks and a few hours of time, but I just don’t.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#115

Post by kazinator »

shagie wrote: post #88
sokoloff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spreadsheets are one of the most popular and widespread computing platforms out there. Excel is almost surely the single largest no-code/low-code install and monthly-active-users base. I don’t see spreadsheets as a failure nor evidence of poor state of computing or technical knowledge. If anything, I think they’re useful, practical, extensively used , and evidence that computing is working for people.

> Excel is almost surely the single largest no-code/low-code install and monthly-active-users base. I'd argue even further that Excel is the most common flavor of LISP installed. =IF(A1 = 1, A2 * 3, MAX(A3, A4)) is remarkably similar to: (if (= A1 1) (* 3 A2) (max A3 A4)) The difference is mostly infix vs prefix and the naming of variables. Not only is Excel the single largest low code install, but its also a gateway…

Never mind IF, Excel now has LET and LAMBDA.

There is an n-ary AND function also; the documentation doesn't mention whether it's short-circuiting or not, and it doesn't return the last value if they are all true, just a Boolean true.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#116

Post by timbit42 »

rpmw wrote: post #105
sokoloff wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even my LEAF (which has one of the worst battery management systems in terms of having passive cooling only) is 7.5 years old and has around 85% of its original capacity.

I guess I don’t understand why that’s acceptable. 15% degradation takes you from what 350 miles from full to just shy of 300. How much worse is it in the winter? None of those things happen in ICE vehicles that are much cheaper than even the cheapest BEV.

ICE vehicles also lose range in the winter. Older EVs have resistive heaters but newer ones have heat pumps which use 1/3 the energy to produce the same heat.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#117

Post by WorldMaker »

News-Dog wrote: post #112
WorldMaker wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the least efficient EVs still get some charge at 120v. One of the worst offenders only gets 1 mile per kWh so that's roughly 1 mile every hour at home. Even if your inefficient EV is only plugged in for the roughly 8 hours you need to sleep, that's still 8 more miles of range when you wake up than you had before you went to bed. A lot of people like to discount that as "basically nothing", but a gas car isn't go…

search '3-phase 220/240 volt EV charging USA' @Goo https://www.google.com/search?q='3-phase 220/240 volt EV cha... >

Search it for what? How is this a useful comment? Yes, the US has 3-phase 220/240 volt plugs. We call them "dryer plugs" out of habit and there aren't enough of them. Because they are "infrequent use"/"single use" plugs in the US most buildings don't have a lot of three phase circuits and expanding the number of three phase "dryer plugs" is relatively expensive. Expanding 120v plugs is much simpler in every class of US building today. That's exactly what I'm complaining about that we aren't doing more of, because it is much cheaper/easier and still a good start for the US. Level 1 charging is better than no charging.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#118

Post by shagie »

kazinator wrote: post #115
shagie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Excel is almost surely the single largest no-code/low-code install and monthly-active-users base. I'd argue even further that Excel is the most common flavor of LISP installed. =IF(A1 = 1, A2 * 3, MAX(A3, A4)) is remarkably similar to: (if (= A1 1) (* 3 A2) (max A3 A4)) The difference is mostly infix vs prefix and the naming of variables. Not only is Excel the single largest low code install, but its also a gateway…

Never mind IF, Excel now has LET and LAMBDA. There is an n-ary AND function also; the documentation doesn't mention whether it's short-circuiting or not, and it doesn't return the last value if they are all true, just a Boolean true.

I haven't had the opportunity to use excel for a problem that would require a lambda yet.

But for those interested https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/blog/lambda-the-ult...

My two examples were more of a "show a clear correspondence between the syntax of excel and lisp" for the "if someone knows basic excel, you can introduce them to lisp."

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#119

Post by turtlebits »

yywwbbn wrote: post #52
kbos87 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to pile on but I’ll second some of the other commenters who have said that not being able to charge at home isn’t that big of a deal. I live in a condo in a major US city and don’t have the option to charge at home. From a convenience perspective, it’s truly turned out to be a non-issue. We’re at the point where I live that there are enough chargers around that I simply plug in once or twice a week while I’m runn…

If you don’t need fast charging at home (i.e. you’re fine leaving it plugged over night) the fixed costs for a home charger a very low. Unless the commercial chargers you use are exceptionally cheap or even free charging might cost nearly as much as gas for a similar car and 4x more than at home (obviously depends on your local situation)

You don’t even need a home charger if you drive less than 50 miles a day, Just plug into a wall outlet.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#120

Post by turtlebits »

xlii wrote: post #13

One thing that is keeping me from getting EV is infrastructure cost. Sure, maintenance is going to be cheaper and cost per km/mile lower, but there is simply not enough infrastructure where I live to charge the car. Friend of mine got EV. He lives in modern apartment where there are 2 charging stations for like 200 cars/garage. He was ecstatic year ago where he would charge whenever he want and it was free (due to su…

Yeah, it’s not smart to rely on public chargers, especially when L2 charging still takes a while and L3 is so expensive. (Almost 4x residential)

I have 8 EV chargers in my work building, and they all fill up.

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