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SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

wsj.com

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Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#401

Post by concordDance »

coconut08 wrote: post #90
xcskier56 wrote: post #78

While I see the great potential in this technology, the collateral damage is the loss of places where one can truly disconnect. I just got back from 4 days camping at a remote mountain lake with zero phone coverage, and it’s one of the most incredible ways to fully recharge and step away from the day to day treadmill of the modern world. When we loose the possibility to completely disconnect, I at least, will feel a…

if you want to not have cell service while you are camping then you can just leave your phone at home. i'm sure that the benefits brought to people who are saved from being bitten by a poisonous snakes or fall down the side of a mountain will outweigh your moderate discomfort brought about by your lack of self control.

This may not actually be true. The number of people currently dying from those things due to lack of coverage is tiny, while a vastly greater number get substantial QoL improvements from the disconnect.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#402

Post by concordDance »

jjcon wrote: post #328
xcskier56 wrote: post #78

While I see the great potential in this technology, the collateral damage is the loss of places where one can truly disconnect. I just got back from 4 days camping at a remote mountain lake with zero phone coverage, and it’s one of the most incredible ways to fully recharge and step away from the day to day treadmill of the modern world. When we loose the possibility to completely disconnect, I at least, will feel a…

> the collateral damage is the loss of places where one can truly disconnect. The real bummer is for the astrophotographers and observers who can’t do anything now without massive streaks of light flying everywhere.

If this goes ahead that means Starship is a thing, so the professional astronomers will have lots of orbital telescopes.

It's the amateurs who are screwed.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#403

Post by seltzered_ »

cma wrote: post #26
anonymousiam wrote: post #5

I watched the announcement. Knowing Musk, I'll believe it when I see it, but it sounds promising. Apparently the G2 Starlink satellites will be equipped with large antennas to support cellular users on the existing spectrum. Video was live-streamed, and still available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzli-Ww26Qs

Garmin inReach but works on any phone and a bit more bandwidth so not restricted to emergency messages. Also free with most T-Mobile plans (inReach is currently expensive, but may drop in response if that isn't a capacity only issue).

> Also free with most T-Mobile plans

I can't find anything suggesting a bundling or partnership between garmin inreach (iridium) and T-mobile. inReach has a separate subscription.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#404

Post by wildzzz »

ronsor wrote: post #142
basementcat wrote: post #3

AST SpaceMobile will be launching its first cellular base station satellite on a Falcon rocket later this year. https://ast-science.com/

How exactly does that work? Cell phones have such small antennas and put out a relatively weak (and omnidirectional) signal. I think the phone would have trouble receiving the satellite's transmissions and vice versa.

Massive phased array that could potentially support multiple spot coverage. You still need a bunch of satellites to ensure continuous coverage unlike GEO birds that can cover a whole continent so it will be awhile until you can get worldwide (or nearly worldwide) coverage. With a really fancy DSP box and enough bandwidth, you can account for Doppler. The speeds won't be great but it will certainly be good enough for voice and SMS.

Adding things like mesh networks, you could drop a small server rack and generator at any where in the world and create a robust cell network to cover disaster zones.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#405

Post by rocqua »

fsh wrote: post #334
intrepidhero wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are cell phone sized thingies that can send text messages to iridium's constellation, which is (as I understand it) way further away than starlink. I use one while backpacking. I'd be super excited to get the same capability in a standard cell phone.

The Iridium orbit heights are not much higher (781 km vs. 550 km). You can always trade bandwidth for increased sensitivity. The most extreme example is GPS. Your phone can receive it from 20000 km away with a tiny antenna, but the data rate is only 50 bits per second.

Within the limits of a 5G receiver, there are probably limits to how much sensitivity you can give up for bandwidth.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#406

Post by alphakilo »

lettergram wrote: post #73

Dear SpaceX, How about you just give me service in middle USA. I pre-ordered in 2021, you’re currently saying I have to wait until 2023. What gives? You’re launching over oceans, Europe, South America, why not Missouri or Indiana or Kentucky?

One reason may be the deployment of Starlink to Ukraine

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#407

Post by Sporktacular »

lrvick wrote: post #380
adev_ wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SMS makes it very hard to be anonymous. Not a good option IMO. How is that even related ? Silence is the equivalent of Signal over SMS instead of the usual Mobile Data: There is nothing by design in Signal to stay anonymous. E2E encryption are mainly there to prevent eyes dropping, not to provide anonymity.

I was simply pointing out Starlink supporting SMS is not good enough, even with layers like Silence on top.

Good enough for what? If you have SMS where you didn't before you're still equally free to not use it. Personally I like the idea of always having a simple channel for emergencies.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#408

Post by rocqua »

pishpash wrote: post #312
samatman wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phased arrays are pretty cool, if I had no idea how they worked I'd be incredulous as well.

A phased array far away is effectively a point source.

But it is a point source with a non-uniform radiation pattern. Hence it can send a lot more power into a specific direction.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#409

Post by Sporktacular »

lrvick wrote: post #366
Cogito wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the event they addressed this, and said they would work with anyone, and that the real issue is making sure that the data is correctly identified as messages and not generic data. This apparently would require back-end work between T-Mobile and the messaging app to identify the data in some way.

This is a net neutrality killer any way you look at it as whitelisting apps in any way will by design mean blocking legitimate privacy focused messaging solutions that do not have fixed IP addresses or identifiable traffic patterns. I somehow doubt for instance they would have a way to allow a federated and often self-hosted messaging protocol like Matrix over an anonymization networking layer like Tor, which is the…

How? Net neutrality applies to the internet. You could run a private mobile network and allow or disallow anything you want on it. The reason it's bandwidth limited is probably because they're using dedicated SMS/MMS channels, as was field tested and proven earlier. T-mobile will likely write or allow modified chat apps that use these channels. So there's nothing to indicate this would be a limited Internet service. And if you didn't want it your options would be no worse than they are now.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/18/lynk-sends-the-first-text-...

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