What the hell is this site's encoding? However I try to decode it, I get misdecoded 'ü'.
Oberon (2009)
11–20 of 149 posts
Re: Oberon (2009)
#12I think tilling WM workflows are more practical than the UI design the article is describing: >Everything is a Command Line Tilling WMs naturally favors TUI apps and opening up a quick terminal in which you input text to do your task. >To launch applications or execute commands, you first type them somewhere and then middle-click them keybinding meta+d: dmenu-run >Everything is Zoomable Tilling WMs with workspaces (o…
> Tiling WMs naturally favors TUI apps More like: "Tiling window managers only work well with resizable TUI apps" - there's still far too many text-mode programs that assume fixed-size console buffer dimensions (think: software still using ancient versions of ncurses) - also assuming that your chosen terminal emulator is capable of dynamically resizing (and re-flowing) normal stdout text.
The most widely used GUIs (web apps) are already resize-friendly (like Bootstrap or flex box).
Re: Oberon (2009)
#13I think tilling WM workflows are more practical than the UI design the article is describing: >Everything is a Command Line Tilling WMs naturally favors TUI apps and opening up a quick terminal in which you input text to do your task. >To launch applications or execute commands, you first type them somewhere and then middle-click them keybinding meta+d: dmenu-run >Everything is Zoomable Tilling WMs with workspaces (o…
> Tilling WMs naturally favors TUI apps
I don't see how that is the case at all
Re: Oberon (2009)
#14Too bad the link in the article is offline: http://bluebottle.ethz.ch/ and http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/wiki/OCP/Downloads takes forever to load somehow.
"Bluebottle" is now called A2 and it's on Github now:
I've done quite a bit of editing on the Wikipedia article, including bringing stuff across from Russian Wikipedia (via Google Translate).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_(operating_system)
The most active user and development community for A2 seems to be in Russia. There's a Telegram group too but I don't speak the language so I can't follow very much of it at all.
Re: Oberon (2009)
#15I think tilling WM workflows are more practical than the UI design the article is describing: >Everything is a Command Line Tilling WMs naturally favors TUI apps and opening up a quick terminal in which you input text to do your task. >To launch applications or execute commands, you first type them somewhere and then middle-click them keybinding meta+d: dmenu-run >Everything is Zoomable Tilling WMs with workspaces (o…
> Tiling WMs naturally favors TUI apps More like: "Tiling window managers only work well with resizable TUI apps" - there's still far too many text-mode programs that assume fixed-size console buffer dimensions (think: software still using ancient versions of ncurses) - also assuming that your chosen terminal emulator is capable of dynamically resizing (and re-flowing) normal stdout text.
I don't know what definition of TUI we're using, but if we're talking about ncurses style whole-terminal-window GUI, there's no inherent advantage. Responsiveness being limited by character width actually sets harder limits for "TUI"s.
It does favor the kind of text-centered UI done by Oberon-1 and imitated by Plan 9's ACME, where there's little to no use of x-y addressing and text just flows.
Re: Oberon (2009)
#16Had to learn at university :-)
Re: Oberon (2009)
#17What the hell is this site's encoding? However I try to decode it, I get misdecoded 'ü'.
Originally UTF-8, then decoded as Latin-1, then re-encoded to UTF-8. You can recompute the exact bytes in the page with this Python code:
>>> 'Zürich'.encode('utf-8').decode('latin1').encode('utf-8')
b'Z\xc3\x83\xc2\xbcrich'Re: Oberon (2009)
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Tiling WMs naturally favors TUI apps More like: "Tiling window managers only work well with resizable TUI apps" - there's still far too many text-mode programs that assume fixed-size console buffer dimensions (think: software still using ancient versions of ncurses) - also assuming that your chosen terminal emulator is capable of dynamically resizing (and re-flowing) normal stdout text.
The most widely used GUIs (web apps) are already resize-friendly (like Bootstrap or flex box).
Those aren’t TUIs unless they somehow work in Lynx.
Re: Oberon (2009)
#19> Oberon is very much in active use at ETH Zürich. We used it as one of our main operating systems. The article being from 2009, this must've been an interesting period for the students, as back then the introductory programming course was using Eiffel, taught by Bertrand Meyer himself.
My 0.02CHF: I studied at ETHZ from 2008 to 2015, and I've heard about Oberon once or twice back then, and read about it at least twice that much on HN.
Never used it, never knew anyone who used it, never knew anyone who worked on it (though I believe the chair had slots for theses available at the time).
Re: Oberon (2009)
#20I remember trying out an Oberon-07 compiler some years back. The speed at which it worked was impressive: it was able to build itself and the standard library modules in a small fraction of a second.
Pascal family languages parse quickly because they won't let you use anything before it's defined.
That's not why Pascal compiles quickly. Resolving undefined symbols isn't difficult or slow, it just means that you have to keep track of what's resolved and what's unresolved and that takes up memory, which was very precious back in the old days of Pascal. Pascal is designed for very fast single-pass compilation, but symbol resolution is only a small part of it.