Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

davidexmachina.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 132 posts

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#21

Post by cronokirby »

acallaghan wrote: post #16
Yizahi wrote: post #3

Should you buy an EV? 1. You live in a private house where you can charge the car? - Yes 2. You don't have a charger at home? - No Simple, really :) . I always wanted to buy an EV but that's a deal breaker criteria. Also the secondary problem - author makes assumption about electricity price, but it almost doesn't matter at all if you are changing at the commercial stations only. They will charge you for as much as t…

I hear this view a lot - my main rebuttal is 'but can't top up your car with petrol/gas/diesel at home either'. The infra around EV charging needs to be much much better, I totally agree with this, but the idea that everyone will be able to charge their cars at home just isn't going to happen

One big difference is the density of the fuel.

You can fill a car with gas in under a minute.

While fast-charging (like Tesla's super charging) has growing deployment, that's still at least 15 minutes or so, which is a significant difference.

And, the density of that is just not there yet, so for the near future having charging at home makes daily driving much more convenient.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#22

Post by MobileVet »

I have been waffling over the purchase of an EV for the better part of 2 years. Despite being cheap AF, the cost of ownership isn’t really at the top of my list of concerns. Mostly that is because the cars I like are far more expensive up front and make the math rough.

That said, if you live in the US, the Chevy Bolt actually makes the math pretty fantastic. If they don’t raise the price at the end of the year, it will be an incredible value. Right now, at 29k or 32k, the math including gas and maintenance turns positive very quickly.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#23

Post by Yizahi »

acallaghan wrote: post #16
Yizahi wrote: post #3

Should you buy an EV? 1. You live in a private house where you can charge the car? - Yes 2. You don't have a charger at home? - No Simple, really :) . I always wanted to buy an EV but that's a deal breaker criteria. Also the secondary problem - author makes assumption about electricity price, but it almost doesn't matter at all if you are changing at the commercial stations only. They will charge you for as much as t…

I hear this view a lot - my main rebuttal is 'but can't top up your car with petrol/gas/diesel at home either'. The infra around EV charging needs to be much much better, I totally agree with this, but the idea that everyone will be able to charge their cars at home just isn't going to happen

Let's imagine I need a car for a daily commute. Or work. After a day ends, I need to get it to the charging station, which is away from the home. I leave the car there and take a bus to the home. There I do something not engaging too much, because in 1-3 hours I need to get out again, at night, get a bus to the charging station (longer waits late in the evening too), then get the car to home and then finally I can rest. It's totally not an option. Also taking a bus or tram twice a day additionally is not free, and kinda defeats the economy part of the EV car.

PS edit: lets add some concrete numbers - the nearest station to my current home (in the peripheral region of the big city, but not the outskirts) is 10 minutes walk away, 2 (two) 22kW type-2 stations. The seconds closest station is 10 (ten) 100kW stations and it is 33 minutes away by bus with a single transfer. So I would need to wait for bus 4 times just to get to the big station and back.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#24

Post by Pelentio »

Yizahi wrote: post #3

Should you buy an EV? 1. You live in a private house where you can charge the car? - Yes 2. You don't have a charger at home? - No Simple, really :) . I always wanted to buy an EV but that's a deal breaker criteria. Also the secondary problem - author makes assumption about electricity price, but it almost doesn't matter at all if you are changing at the commercial stations only. They will charge you for as much as t…

I own an ev and it's easy enough to charge it out of my home.

It's not that black and white.

I will also be able to start charging at work in a year if I even need to go to work.

And I have seen plenty of normal companies providing charging options (Germany).

Charging infrastructure is easy to setup.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#25

Post by throwaway0a5e »

jchonphoenix wrote: post #4
Faaak wrote: post #2

This doesn't take into account maintenance, which makes a huge difference ! My EV car (hyundai ioniq 2016) has now 100'000 km (62'000 mi) and I never once went to the garage for a service (except for tyres of course). Brake pads are still new, no oil change needed, etc.. Can't imagine how much it would've cost on a gas car

How does this work? Brake pads don't seem like they should be different on an EV. It's really just the engine components that should have less wear and tear and those only come into play at the 30k and 60k mark

> How does this work?

Maintenance in the first 100-150k (I really want to say ~200 but that will depend largely on the treatment the vehicle gets in the first 100) is basically nothing other than short term wear items (pads and tires) and preventative maintenance (transmission fluid at 50k, air filter at 20k, stuff like that).

As EVs get long in the tooth they will exhibit all the same "stuff between the vehicle and the road is wearing out" problems that literally every other wheeled vehicle on this earth exhibits. It's not like equipping a car with an electric drive train makes all the steering and suspension parts (that account for the bulk of the late in life maintenance) magically cease to exist

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#26

Post by lotsofpulp »

Yizahi wrote: post #11
jchonphoenix wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this work? Brake pads don't seem like they should be different on an EV. It's really just the engine components that should have less wear and tear and those only come into play at the 30k and 60k mark

Oil, filters and work on them is pricy at the official dealers (if you care about warranty). Also more failure points - turbines, injectors, gas pump, exhaust, gearbox, oiling system in general. Just a single gearbox or turbine failure can cost thousands. EVs are really cheaper in general, however you compare.

Where does getting an oil filter changed by a non dealer void the warranty?

Oil/air filters and brakes are $50 and $500 at most. Everything else is pretty reliable for a couple hundred thousand miles assuming a decent brand car like Toyota or Honda.

At US gas prices, I have yet to see an EV be shown to be a better value than a car/minivan/SUV/pickup truck, especially if driving 10k miles or less per year. The upfront cost on EVs is huge, and many alternatives such as minivans do not even exist yet.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#27

Post by ZeroGravitas »

This is a poor TCO calculation and there's many better ones available that include more variables, e.g. random pick:

https://afdc.energy.gov/calc/

The answer is almost certainly yes if you would otherwise buy an ICE car and the only factor you care about is cost.

There's some corner cases, but this doesn't cover them.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#28

Post by badpun »

Yizahi wrote: post #17
wffurr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a good variety of EVs parked on the street here in Cambridge, MA, USA. There’s a decent local network of level 2 and 3 chargers that are regularly used to charge the cars, in the neighborhood and at various area workplaces. Some are owned by the city and only charge enough to break even on installation and electricity cost. Workplace ones are often subsidized by the employers as a side benefit. Clearly it doesn…

I'm currently in the eastern EU, and while there a lot of EVs on the roads, the infrastructure is not usable for my personal use there too. No chargers at homes or near homes, not even in the new apartment blocks. No chargers at work parkings. Honestly, I wonder how can EU ban selling ICE cars even in 10 years, if the infrastructure in so much lagging behind.

> Honestly, I wonder how can EU ban selling ICE cars even in 10 years, if the infrastructure in so much lagging behind.

They won't. I believe it's purely fiction.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#29

Post by byhemechi »

There's another option which in my case is much cheaper (and subjectively easier): buy a mazda2 for dirt cheap and only use it when you can't use public transport. Not only does it work out to be cheaper, it's also (in my opinion) much more convenient not having to find parking than not having to wait 10 minutes for a bus/tram/train.

Obviously, your mileage may vary (ha) based on where you live, but for someone who lives in Sydney it works pretty well.

Re: Should You Buy an EV? A calculator to figure it out

#30

Post by badpun »

Faaak wrote: post #2

This doesn't take into account maintenance, which makes a huge difference ! My EV car (hyundai ioniq 2016) has now 100'000 km (62'000 mi) and I never once went to the garage for a service (except for tyres of course). Brake pads are still new, no oil change needed, etc.. Can't imagine how much it would've cost on a gas car

I have a 2012 petrol car with 72000 km on it and total costs of maintenance and (almost non-existant) repairs so far has been around $1500 (here in Poland). That's nothing compared to the extra upfront cost of an electric car. The economics are probably less favorable for petrol cars in countries where skilled labor is more expensive though.
Post reply on HN