Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 496 posts

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#131

Post by the_duke »

extheat wrote: post #109
fragmede wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-driving cars have proven harder than expected, but given the rest of Musk's tale, I wouldn't bet against him. SpaceX is already launching satellites, and Starlink is already providing service. T-mobile owns the frequencies for it, it's "just" a matter of building the satellites and putting them into space. If the claim were more outlandish, it would be harder to buy, but the technology is eminently doable.

Yes, I expect this to be one of many announcements going forward, with Amazon Kuiper and OneWeb coming into the party -- eventually. However, SpaceX has the advantage of vertical integration (they launch their own rockets) which substantially helps with costs.

Also the benefit of time. Kuiper hasn't launched anything yet, and all their launchers are still in development - BOs own rocket New Glenn, Arianne 6, and ULA Vulcan. Vulcan probably isn't too far off, 2023, but they will need time to ramp up production. It'll also be a lot more expensive than for SpaceX.

Amazon will probably have to heavily subsidize Kuiper.

I reckon they hope the market is big enough for multiple providers.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#132

Post by judge2020 »

mlindner wrote: post #92
judge2020 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would expect our pricing for this service to be the un-carrier's favorite price: we expect, on our most popular plans, for this service to be included for free" https://youtu.be/Qzli-Ww26Qs?t=851

Yes, that's what I said. Edit: Downvotes are happening for some reason. "most likely" and "I would expect" mean basically the same thing unless we're playing grammar police. The entire point of my above post was to deny the fact that they "did not disclose specific pricing". That was the part that was incorrect that I was correcting, as shown in the long form direct quote.

The direct quote is more descriptive as it claims "we expect" instead of "most likely". The quote implies that it's based on preliminary cost data and could change, while "most likely" almost sounds like it's based on a dice roll and is vague about exactly what is contributing to the uncertainty of the statement. He chose his words carefully.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#133

Post by bjacobt »

mlindner wrote: post #34
basementcat wrote: post #18

AST SpaceMobile will be launching a cellular base station satellite on a SpaceX rocket later this year. https://ast-science.com/

Yes if the SpaceX service succeeds it's kind of a death knell for the likes of AST SpaceMobile and Iridium.

Most telcos like to have two or more vendors and almost all large terrestrial networks are built with equipment from at least two vendors.

If space based cellular service is viable with good adoption. History says operators will want at least two providers because having only one vendor is risky.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#134

Post by teraflop »

wongarsu wrote: post #76
nootropicat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the... is that what's possible with 5G? Amazing, and even days ago I was thinking of satellite smartphone internet as something scifi because of (clearly incorrect!) complicated antenna requirements.

4G/LTE was commonly quoted as 3km range for rural installations (using the 2GHz bands). 5G added 700MHz and 800MHz bands that are quoted as 10-20km achievable range. For typical cell tower heights 20km is about the range where they would sink behind the horizon, so that might be the practical limit here. Starlink satellites are about 330km up, so one order of magnitude further. But they also have basically unobstruct…

330km is only when the satellite is directly overhead. Starlink's coverage is typically given on the assumption that the satellites may be as low as 25 degrees above the horizon, and at that elevation, the straight-line distance is more like 700km if my math is right.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#135

Post by the_duke »

mlindner wrote: post #7

Key notes: * Everywhere in the US and US territories including ocean waters you will get T-Mobile service through Starlink satellites, no additional hardware needed (for the person owning the cell phone anyway) * Beta service starting end of 2023 * Included for free with most T-Mobile plans other than the cheapest plans * More limited features may be added earlier, i.e. texting or emergency calling * Total available…

As others have pointed out, SpaceX recently ammended the licensing request to launch v2 sats on Falcon 9.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#136

Post by JamisonM »

joshmn wrote: post #88

I'm still baffled that I get better service in the middle of a lake in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness than on the shore. I tried T-Mobile for service, I tried Verizon, and I tried AT&T, and for whatever reason, I could run a decent speed test in the middle of many lakes, but not anywhere else.

The network techs at my telco tell me that Cell towers hate trees and that is why I have no service at my home except intermittently on the second floor since I live along a well-treed river at the edge of a coverage area.

It makes some sense to me, just as antenna folks jokingly call humans bags of water trees are ... bags of water with infinity tiny appendages that are constantly in motion in the slightest breeze.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#138

Post by mlindner »

bjacobt wrote: post #133
mlindner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes if the SpaceX service succeeds it's kind of a death knell for the likes of AST SpaceMobile and Iridium.

Most telcos like to have two or more vendors and almost all large terrestrial networks are built with equipment from at least two vendors. If space based cellular service is viable with good adoption. History says operators will want at least two providers because having only one vendor is risky.

This assumes that other vendors can be cost competitive, which, at least to me, seems quite unlikely.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#139

Post by ac29 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #65
mlindner wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So baseline, a modern cell phone can connect to a tower about 45 miles away. Isn't that primarily because of the Earth's curvature and obstructions/hills?

Good question. I've had a bear of a time sourcing good info on this and would welcome a solid analysis.

Radio horizon is somewhat complex, but 45 miles is not entirely unreasonable from an elevated position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-of-sight_propagation#Radi...

There could also be timing related constraints that limit max range: radio waves propagate at the speed of light which is fast, but not instant.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#140

Post by mlindner »

lettergram wrote: post #73

Dear SpaceX, How about you just give me service in middle USA. I pre-ordered in 2021, you’re currently saying I have to wait until 2023. What gives? You’re launching over oceans, Europe, South America, why not Missouri or Indiana or Kentucky?

Because your area is already at capacity. It doesn't affect you for them to operate in other locations.
Post reply on HN