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SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

wsj.com

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Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#51

Post by LeoPanthera »

nootropicat wrote: post #21
mlindner wrote: post #7

Key notes: * Everywhere in the US and US territories including ocean waters you will get T-Mobile service through Starlink satellites, no additional hardware needed (for the person owning the cell phone anyway) * Beta service starting end of 2023 * Included for free with most T-Mobile plans other than the cheapest plans * More limited features may be added earlier, i.e. texting or emergency calling * Total available…

What the... is that what's possible with 5G? Amazing, and even days ago I was thinking of satellite smartphone internet as something scifi because of (clearly incorrect!) complicated antenna requirements.

I think the "complicated antenna requirements" still exist - they've just put the complicated antenna on the satellite, instead of on the phone.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#52

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

trothamel wrote: post #28
ceeplusplus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought existing Starlink needed a phased array antenna to get decent signal strength. How the hell is a cell phone radio going to reach a satellite?

Really big antennas, and really slow signals. The satellite is expected to downlink at 2-4 megabit, and uplink will likely be slower still.

2-4 megabits per "cell zone."

If you're really out in a super remote location you might be the only person in your zone, but if you're camping with a dozen friends you'll all be splitting that 2-4 megabits.

Still tremendously impressive though, if they're able to pull it off.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#54

Post by mlindner »

shadowgovt wrote: post #48
nootropicat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the... is that what's possible with 5G? Amazing, and even days ago I was thinking of satellite smartphone internet as something scifi because of (clearly incorrect!) complicated antenna requirements.

Radio's got some crazy physics. So baseline, a modern cell phone can connect to a tower about 45 miles away. Stsrlink satellites orbir about 10 times out from that. They are solving this problem by some very clever phased array technology to be deployed on the satellites themselves, because when it comes to radio, you can often solve the problem of signal reception by boosting either the transmitter or the receiver s…

> So baseline, a modern cell phone can connect to a tower about 45 miles away.

Isn't that primarily because of the Earth's curvature and obstructions/hills?

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#55

Post by arbuge »

More detail here: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/spacex-and-t-mobile-team-up-...

"T-Mobile users will be able to use messaging, MMS and certain messaging apps, from remote points across the lower 48 states, Alaska, Puerto Rico and Hawaii and even some remote points in the water.

Eventually, the service will work with voice, Sievert said. T-Mobile plans to include the service in its most popular mobile plans but did not disclose specific pricing.

Musk said the service will work with Starlink’s second generation satellites, which have very large antennae and will be able to transmit directly to a cell or mobile phone.

The service won’t require mobile users to get a new phone. Musk said in or after a natural disaster, even if all the cell towers are taken out, the planned service should work."

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#56

Post by LeoPanthera »

0x0000000 wrote: post #39
boredpudding wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, wait till you hear about GPS.

GPS is unidirectional.

I assume they were referring to the "RF free zone" claim. Which is nonsense, since RF noise existed long before humans figured out how to generate it, from storms, or even the sun itself.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#57

Post by LeoPanthera »

samstave wrote: post #9

space based global coverage scares the shit out of me, especially when its 100% commercial interests. Thought you could be untrackable off grid? Think again. Think you can be in an RF free zone, anywhere on planet? Nope. There is no "off-grid" when your grid is literally LAT+LONG 100% data access sounds awesome until you realize that its no longer "surveillance state" and its "surveillance planet"

If you don't want to be tracked, don't carry a cellphone.

If you want to live in an RF free zone, well that will be tricky. Avoid lightning storms and the sun.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#58

Post by mlindner »

arbuge wrote: post #55

More detail here: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/spacex-and-t-mobile-team-up-... "T-Mobile users will be able to use messaging, MMS and certain messaging apps, from remote points across the lower 48 states, Alaska, Puerto Rico and Hawaii and even some remote points in the water. Eventually, the service will work with voice, Sievert said. T-Mobile plans to include the service in its most popular mobile plans but did…

> T-Mobile plans to include the service in its most popular mobile plans but did not disclose specific pricing.

No, he said that it would "most likely" be included with the most popular mobile plans for free.

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#59

Post by Nextgrid »

cma wrote: post #26
anonymousiam wrote: post #5

I watched the announcement. Knowing Musk, I'll believe it when I see it, but it sounds promising. Apparently the G2 Starlink satellites will be equipped with large antennas to support cellular users on the existing spectrum. Video was live-streamed, and still available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzli-Ww26Qs

Garmin inReach but works on any phone and a bit more bandwidth so not restricted to emergency messages. Also free with most T-Mobile plans (inReach is currently expensive, but may drop in response if that isn't a capacity only issue).

Doesn't this require specific hardware?

Re: SpaceX, T-Mobile to connect satellites to cellphones in remote areas

#60

Post by palata »

boredpudding wrote: post #25
samstave wrote: post #9

space based global coverage scares the shit out of me, especially when its 100% commercial interests. Thought you could be untrackable off grid? Think again. Think you can be in an RF free zone, anywhere on planet? Nope. There is no "off-grid" when your grid is literally LAT+LONG 100% data access sounds awesome until you realize that its no longer "surveillance state" and its "surveillance planet"

Oh man, wait till you hear about GPS.

GPS satellites broadcast data, and the GPS receivers (e.g. your phone) only receive. That means that they are completely invisible to the satellites.

You are tracked on your phone because it is connected to the Internet somehow, so it can send your location. But with only a GPS receiver (my Garmin running watch for instance), you are completely invisible.

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