Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

nypost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–215 of 215 posts

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#211

Post by the_other »

vaidhy wrote: post #199
DoughnutHole wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're overselling the "true cost" of maritime shipping - it's far and away the most efficient form of freight we have. Ocean freight has carbon emissions of 7g of CO2 per tonne-kilometre. Road freight by comparison has emissions of 137 gCO2/tkm - nearly 20 times the ocean emissions. So, you would need to ship something 2000km before it has equivalent emissions to a 100km trip by road. So yea you're right that it'd b…

Isn't your first conclusion only true if every point in the country is close and equi-distant to a port and all ports get the same goods? In practice, you still truck multiple tonnage. In your example, the port is in LA and say, manufacturing plant in Michigan and I am in Atlanta.. it is still less carbon-emitting to truck from Michigan to Atlanta than ship from Shenzen to LA and then truck from LA to Atlanta..

This seems like the kind of analysis we should do more of.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#212

Post by taylodl »

vasco wrote: post #65
charles_f wrote: post #32

I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…

This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…

This is okay too - it's cheaper to put heated seats in all the cars, than to put it in some cars! Enable it via the purchase of an options package. But a recurring cost for the feature? That grinds my gears.

What they could do is allow you to enable that feature later, albeit at higher cost. Imagine what that could do for the used car market? I buy a car where the previous owner hadn't enabled heated seats. I contact the manufacturer and say I'd like to enable the heated seats. Heck, why stop there? The manufacturer may respond asking whether I'd like to purchase an option package instead that included a bunch of other features. This seems reasonable and pro-consumer. Subscribing to a feature does not.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#213

Post by lukeschlather »

throw10920 wrote: post #165
lukeschlather wrote: post #83

> Toyota, meanwhile, started charging $8 a month to remotely start vehicles using a key fob — a feature that had previously been free. It's probably not safe to operate these sorts of features in perpetuity. Funding the security team to deal with hacks seems necessary and the cost is reasonable. Really, it's comforting to hope that in 20 years time you might still get security updates. (As opposed to my smartphone wh…

If the product arrived defective (including security flaws), then the liability is on the manufacturer and they should fix it free of charge, because they sold you a product with a defect. This is categorically different than software updates and feature releases - in that case, you can justify a recurring subscription, because extra value is being provided to the customer. In the bug-fixing case, the customer litera…

Security issues with software are "normal wear and tear." If you want something to remain secure you need to provide regular security updates. Assuming it's secure at ship-time, a remote-start keyfob is unlikely to be secure 5 years from now (not without regular software updates.)

This is distinct from something like heated seats where yes, if it works it works.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#214

Post by prh8 »

dlmiller wrote: post #115
prh8 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Subaru, you can also buy additional years for cheaper when purchasing the vehicle. I think I could do 10 years (7 additional) for 375. Personal preference now/later but that 375 goes on the loan anyways.

I wish that was an option for me. I bought it "used" with 1100 miles, last year. That may have been an option, but I wasn't made aware of it. I had to sweet talk the Subaru support to get the free 3 years. I was also under the impression it had remote start, which it does via the app, but not via the key fob without the remote module installed.

The remote module isn't stock on any trims, as it seems to be a bit pricey and it seems most people prefer the app remote start.

I think that you can have remote start (for fob) dealer installed after the fact though. Maybe check on that.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#215

Post by rabidonrails »

techsupporter wrote: post #49
rabidonrails wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds right for someone that lives in a city and doesn't have kids. If you have a family then the options you laid out above don't work very well and if you live in the suburbs then constant uber/biking/public transport are not long term options.

> If you have a family then the options you laid out above don't work very well Genuine question: Why is it that whenever someone on a forum mentions the phrase "public transit", inevitably someone comes along under ten minutes later to tell them how they're obviously wrong? I am in my 50s. My wife and I have raised children in a city. Many years ago, before transit got much better, we hauled them up into the high-st…

I'm not sure why the swift backlash - you lived in a city. As I wrote "This sounds right for someone that lives in a city AND doesn't have kids." At the very least, that's an important "AND"
Post reply on HN