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Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

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Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#41

Post by matdwyer »

wavephorm wrote: post #8
snowwindwaves wrote: post #5

new zealanders have a rough go with their telecommunications as well. I recall seeing the vodafone CEO on the news saying they made 3-4x as much profit in new zealand as anywhere else (per customer probably). The only competion was the ex-public telecom. canadians don't have it quite so bad as the new zealanders, but they get a worse deal than the americans for sure.

Canada has BY FAR the most expensive cell phone rates in the world. New Zealand is 19th according to this list. See: http://www.mobilemag.com/2010/08/27/canadians-have-the-most-... That graph doesn't even give justice to the true cost. Canada plans are almost always regional, so to call another city, even one nearby is a long distance call. VOIP phones are also rare because numbers are restricted, Skype and Google Ph…

FWIW, I pay $90 all in for unlimited North American Long Distance, 6GB of Data, Unlimited calling anytime, and all the "other" features. Basically an unlimited plan (iPhone 4S w/ Fido) - Good plans ARE available, you just have to work to get them.

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#42

Post by noselasd »

snowwindwaves wrote: post #23
wavephorm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has BY FAR the most expensive cell phone rates in the world. New Zealand is 19th according to this list. See: http://www.mobilemag.com/2010/08/27/canadians-have-the-most-... That graph doesn't even give justice to the true cost. Canada plans are almost always regional, so to call another city, even one nearby is a long distance call. VOIP phones are also rare because numbers are restricted, Skype and Google Ph…

I wonder why Skype In (Skype Online Number) - where people call a POTS number and get your skype account, isn't available in canada. What is stopping everyone from making calls from mobile phones over data networks? surely skype is available for iphone and android?

Well, how do you get access to the canadian POTS ? You'll need to inter-connect with the telephone network , and likely they won't let skype do that easily.

skype or other voip technologies is an option, but they're often much more incovenient. And I would be surprised if the teloc operators do deep packet inspection to block skype on their network.

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#43

Post by zmanji »

freejack wrote: post #40
zmanji wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has to fix the prime example of regulatory capture that is the CRTC. This can be achieved by either changing the current management or drafting more legislation.

IIRC, there are only a few commissioners who don't come from Canada's media/telco industries. i.e. the commission is mostly populated by insiders from the industries that the CRTC purports to oversee and regulate. Fox, henhouse, etc. http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/commissioners.htm

The question that I always have is, how can we find people who have the knowledge to regulate the telco industry but who have not worked in the telco industry in a large capacity before?

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#44

Post by zmanji »

snowwindwaves wrote: post #21
zmanji wrote: post #13

I've never understood why in many western industrialized countries telecommunications has not been regulated the same as sewage, roads, electricity, etc. It is a vital piece of infrastructure in the 21st century and it should be the responsibility of the government to manage such infrastructure.

we used to have that, and while the service of providing roads, electricity, or sewerage hasn't changed much in the last 100 years, telecommunications certainly has. while networks might lend themselves to natural monopolies, government sponsored telecommunications monopolies couldn't keep up with the pace of innovation these days and as a result consumers would be left paying high rates for antiquated service.

Right now in Canada I am paying high rates for antiquated service. There is still long distance, I have to pay extra for voicemail + caller id, etc.

I agree that government sponsored monopolies probably could not keep up with the pace of innovation. However in industries where natural monopolies occur, I think they are the better solution then private enterprise.

In Canada, it used to be that receiving text messages was free. However, one of the three carriers decided to charge for incoming texts. Sure enough, in less than a year, the other two carriers followed and also charged for incoming texts. I have a strong feeling to say that sort of behavior would not occur if there was a government sponsored monopoly.

The obvious solution is better regulation, but I don't think anyone has found a solution to regulatory capture yet so I'm not banking on anything there.

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#45

Post by FD3SA »

zmanji wrote: post #13

I've never understood why in many western industrialized countries telecommunications has not been regulated the same as sewage, roads, electricity, etc. It is a vital piece of infrastructure in the 21st century and it should be the responsibility of the government to manage such infrastructure.

The issue is precisely that regulators are in bed with monopolizers. More regulation will only strengthen their stranglehold on this market. The proper response in this scenario is complete deregulation, allowing international players to drive competition in the currently stagnant market.

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#46

Post by cheez »

matdwyer wrote: post #41
wavephorm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has BY FAR the most expensive cell phone rates in the world. New Zealand is 19th according to this list. See: http://www.mobilemag.com/2010/08/27/canadians-have-the-most-... That graph doesn't even give justice to the true cost. Canada plans are almost always regional, so to call another city, even one nearby is a long distance call. VOIP phones are also rare because numbers are restricted, Skype and Google Ph…

FWIW, I pay $90 all in for unlimited North American Long Distance, 6GB of Data, Unlimited calling anytime, and all the "other" features. Basically an unlimited plan (iPhone 4S w/ Fido) - Good plans ARE available, you just have to work to get them.

6GB is not unlimited

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#47

Post by cheez »

noarchy wrote: post #25
loceng wrote: post #11

It keeps competitors out. Many governments do this. Keeps jobs and profits local, for the most part.

For the most part, maybe. Tell that to the Bell customers who deal with Indian call centres when they need tech support. I know I did, years back (haven't dealt with Bell in a while).

Heh, I know the guy who piloted that way back. He still gets royalties.

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#48

Post by teamonkey »

snowwindwaves wrote: post #21
zmanji wrote: post #13

I've never understood why in many western industrialized countries telecommunications has not been regulated the same as sewage, roads, electricity, etc. It is a vital piece of infrastructure in the 21st century and it should be the responsibility of the government to manage such infrastructure.

we used to have that, and while the service of providing roads, electricity, or sewerage hasn't changed much in the last 100 years, telecommunications certainly has. while networks might lend themselves to natural monopolies, government sponsored telecommunications monopolies couldn't keep up with the pace of innovation these days and as a result consumers would be left paying high rates for antiquated service.

This is going to sound like trolling, but compared to the European mobile telecoms services, you in the US are paying high rates for an antiquated service (specifically, non-GSM use is still common, everyday data speeds are slower, dropouts are higher, call quality is lower).

Judicious government investment into telecoms infrastructure in certain European countries has led to fast, cheap and stable communications. Government investment doesn't always equate to bad; if it's bad it means that particular government body did a bad job in that particular case, that's all.

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#49

Post by matdwyer »

cheez wrote: post #46
matdwyer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I pay $90 all in for unlimited North American Long Distance, 6GB of Data, Unlimited calling anytime, and all the "other" features. Basically an unlimited plan (iPhone 4S w/ Fido) - Good plans ARE available, you just have to work to get them.

6GB is not unlimited

Hence why I said "basically". I tether daily (including streaming the occasional leafs game, radio, etc) and haven't gone over 6GB.

Re: Canada's Telecom Market is Rigged, says Wind Mobile backer Naguib Sawiris

#50

Post by jbarham »

By way of comparison, I'm living in Melbourne, Australia, and pay $55/month for the Nexus S w/ unlimited calls within Australia (including to other mobile phones), unlimited texts (IIRC) and 500 MB of data. That's for a one-year plan w/ Vodafone, and I didn't pay anything up-front for the phone. Needless to say I'm looking forward to upgrading to the Galaxy Nexus soon. :) My wife has the the same phone and same plan for two years and pays $45/month.

The Australian mobile phone market is very competitive, and it has a number of foreign players (e.g., Optus, Vodafone, Virgin). Australian fixed-line telecommunications are much less competitive due to the legacy stranglehold of the former government monopoly, Telstra.

IMO Canadians are far too complacent about government sanctioned monopolies or oligopolies (e.g., car insurance in BC, alcohol sales are provincial government monopolies, dairy product quotas, wheat board monopoly) that means they pay more for less choice, supposedly for their own good, when in reality it just enriches an old-boys network of politically well-connected players and condemns the protected industries to being being unable to compete internationally.

FWIW I'm Canadian.

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