A bit absurd to roll out all these fertility stats but never even mention social issues behind these trends, like a patriarchal culture, excessive over work, poor conditions for retirees…
Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
331–340 of 643 posts
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#332Something has deeply deeply changed in society for a fertility rate to go from 6 to 0.8 in 60 years, the living memory of a single life. Before, society grew with the average working age person only needing to half support an elderly retiree. Now, that same working age person will need to support more than 2 elderly retirees themselves, over 4 times the resources. Has it occurred to people that, maybe, modern fertili…
I really see no way out of this unless our economic models change drastically.
For the population to actually grow, some people will need to make three kids. I just don't see that happening at scale at all. Most won't even make two kids, forget about three.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
What? Declining birth rates have nothing to do with oppressing women. Worker exploitation, poor social safety net, and wealth disparity are squarely to blame.
When all these things were worse, 100 years ago, people had more kids than they do today.
That’s an excellent point.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fear I agree with you. Grossly, south korean couples each makes 1 child. So its population is going 1/2. To correct that and return to previous level, every couple formed among those children would have to bear 4 children. I think they won't and it looks grim.
Why do you assume the current population is the correct one? There’s a reasonable argument to be made that humans are over the Earth’s carrying capacity nearly everywhere, and are causing environmental and social damage to maintain the current size. It is quite normal in ecology to see crashes and recovery in the event of overpopulation. If we assume humans are biological organisms, it all seems pretty normal.
Except that humans are now in a situation where modern medicine has also allowed us to live much longer. The natural cycle of birth-aging-death has been disrupted. You suddenly have a world where there are too many 80 year olds and not enough 8 year olds.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#335Something has deeply deeply changed in society for a fertility rate to go from 6 to 0.8 in 60 years, the living memory of a single life. Before, society grew with the average working age person only needing to half support an elderly retiree. Now, that same working age person will need to support more than 2 elderly retirees themselves, over 4 times the resources. Has it occurred to people that, maybe, modern fertili…
Surrogacy will be the next big thing. Women in poorer countries will birth the children for wealthier nations. This will aid in the reduction of family formation in poorer countries and serve as population control. While ensuring no one country becomes too populated. H.G. Wells pointed out that we cannot have population control in one nation of the world, but not another. It must be worldwide, or it'd result in sever…
> Surrogacy will be the next big thing
It might, but its still not going to change the population decline pattern.
No one is going to have three kids with surrogacy. At most, people will have one or two. Stabilization at best. Not growth.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#336It is always unclear to me if this is a bad thing. In a shrinking population, are individual people worse off, or does it just look like a decline when you look at the country in aggregate? There is no shortage of squandered talent in the world. So many people work below their capability because there are just more people than opportunities. It seems like it’s not a problem to keep running the modern world, even with…
The supply and demand for a good may go up or down as population decreases, depending on if a good was artificially constrained, etc...
I feel like for people living in big cities, where things are expensive simply because too many people want to live there, things might start to get easier.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#337A bit absurd to roll out all these fertility stats but never even mention social issues behind these trends, like a patriarchal culture, excessive over work, poor conditions for retirees…
How does a patriarchal culture contribute to lower fertility rates? If anything I would expect the opposite effect.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
You need to look up what surrogacy means. The surrogate women is doing the "pregnancy" part, with prior agreement and IVF from a different couple.
But... why? Most women I know are fine and even happy with the pregnancy part. Why would they want to outsource that part? They love the attention. The birth part? Not so much, but that part is difficult to outsource.
Google "perineal tear birth" for a visceral taste of the issues that come along with pregnancy and childbirth. It's a grueling process.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
Usually, the story told here is South Korea copying Pakistan’s five year economic plan in the early 60s. Also you should specify whether you mean West or East (presumably West) Pakistan’s population numbers. The western half had 51m people in 1960.
There is no East Pakistan AFAIK, or atleast not for more than 50 years.
In 1960 there was.
Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate
#340Something has deeply deeply changed in society for a fertility rate to go from 6 to 0.8 in 60 years, the living memory of a single life. Before, society grew with the average working age person only needing to half support an elderly retiree. Now, that same working age person will need to support more than 2 elderly retirees themselves, over 4 times the resources. Has it occurred to people that, maybe, modern fertili…
Apologies for ranting but this topic resonates too much. Housing prices are 9x salary vs 4.5x salary in the 70s and it takes a while to save up. Personal data point: it took me winning an IPO lottery to start thinking about having kids for real. Having kids while earning minimal wage? Terrifying, especially in the US where getting yourself or your kid sick could bankrupt you in the blink of an eye - and if you want m…
Then why the
1. Inverse relationship between household income and fertility rate?
2. Enhanced child tax credit (US), child benefit (UK), Medicaid (kid gets sick?)
3. Insanely progressive taxes on income?