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Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

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Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#31

Post by nathanvanfleet »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #18

To play devil's advocate, there is nothing about being a patent troll inherently illegal. Hotz feels the patent is invalid, but it might not be. Our system does not require you to ever build the object patented before extracting fees from it. This is in fact the way the US patent system works. One of the patents is here: https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/patents/patent/10454707 Method, Apparatus and System for Retrof…

I'm not sure he's making a legal claim when he says they're not building anything. I think he's just trying to establish that they are not adding anything to the universe and are just parasites. Companies that are actually adding value are being preyed on by patent trolls. It's a kind of capitalist entropy

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#32

Post by faeriechangling »

sva_ wrote: post #16
labrador wrote: post #3

I always thought Hotz an interesting character. This paragraph adds to that impression: "What he didn’t take into account is that comma isn’t run by rational actors in suits sitting on a committee. It’s run by me, George Hotz. I’m willing to lose $1M before I give him $10k. We will hire an amazing legal team, fight this, and while doing so invalidate his patents so they can’t be used against anyone else. Not because…

> It’s run by me, George Hotz. I'm torn between considering it a power move of mentioning yourself and linking to the Wikipedia entry about you, or not. But I appreciate the troll hunt.

If a little showboating is what it takes to motivate a wealthy guy to chokeslam a patent troll in court…

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#33

Post by nathanvanfleet »

kstrauser wrote: post #26
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #18

To play devil's advocate, there is nothing about being a patent troll inherently illegal. Hotz feels the patent is invalid, but it might not be. Our system does not require you to ever build the object patented before extracting fees from it. This is in fact the way the US patent system works. One of the patents is here: https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/patents/patent/10454707 Method, Apparatus and System for Retrof…

The devil doesn't need an advocate. And at any rate, "illegal" is not the same as "immoral". Even if the troll's actions are within the law, in my opinion they're utterly immoral and scummy.

> The devil doesn't need an advocate.

I like that statement. "I'll be the devil's advocate" is right up there with everyone stating they will defend hate speech "to the death" because of free speech. Why not take your time to say you disagree with someone instead?

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#37

Post by majormajor »

btilly wrote: post #23
thfuran wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that considerably more of today's ills would be solved by more collective action.

I strongly recommend that you read https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674537514 . It explains the economic reasons why it is hard to get collective action to happen. It also explains why any government organization organized for collective action in time is likely to undergo regulatory capture, meaning that the people you wanted to regulate are in control of the regulations and manipulate them for their…

The description of the book seems to take "acting as a group is necessary" as a given, actually, by my read. Right up front! "Economists have long understood that defense, law, and order were public goods that could not be marketed to individuals, and that taxation was necessary."

So if the alternative is more self-motivated individual action, you obviously don't have to go far to find tons of examples of how that results in bad outcomes. Here's someone motivated to say "fuck you" to patent trolls. But the patent trolls themselves are motivated by self interest to be a troll in the first place, so "individual agency" here is at best a wash. Difficult collective action to reform the mechanisms patent trolls take advantage of still seem far more likely to work here than just hoping for more individuals willing to light their money on fire on principle.

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#38

Post by greyface- »

jjoonathan wrote: post #30
duxup wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we all could spend a million on lawsuits… dunno if that is good.

He has explored other heavy hitting strategies too. Rap Battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg When the rap battle didn't work, (probably) causing a $171M outage and getting away with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_PlayStation_Network_outag... Absolute legend.

> causing a $171M outage and getting away with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_PlayStation_Network_outag...

Do you have more information on this? The Wikipedia page doesn't name Hotz.

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#39

Post by aeyes »

sib wrote: post #10
labrador wrote: post #3

I always thought Hotz an interesting character. This paragraph adds to that impression: "What he didn’t take into account is that comma isn’t run by rational actors in suits sitting on a committee. It’s run by me, George Hotz. I’m willing to lose $1M before I give him $10k. We will hire an amazing legal team, fight this, and while doing so invalidate his patents so they can’t be used against anyone else. Not because…

This has been Newegg's strategy forever... https://www.newegg.com/insider/newegg-vs-patent-trolls-when-...

Talk from Newegg chief legal officer from 2013 about patent trolls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgXItNZbAY

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#40

Post by jjoonathan »

greyface- wrote: post #38
jjoonathan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has explored other heavy hitting strategies too. Rap Battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg When the rap battle didn't work, (probably) causing a $171M outage and getting away with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_PlayStation_Network_outag... Absolute legend.

> causing a $171M outage and getting away with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_PlayStation_Network_outag... Do you have more information on this? The Wikipedia page doesn't name Hotz.

Well, yeah. Either he inspired someone else to do it or he did it himself and used the power of STFU and impeccable opsec to get away with it. Here is the timeline.

    On February 12, 2011, Hotz posted a one-minute diss track against Sony

    On April 11, 2011, ... settlement out of court. This included a permanent injunction against Hotz doing any more hacking...

    The attack occurred between April 17 and April 19, 2011... The outage lasted 23 days

    To date, there is no confirmed evidence any credit card or personal information has been misused
"But that's purely circumstantial!"

Yes, deliciously so. This is all thoroughly speculative and had better remain that way.

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