Live data from Hacker News

Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

irdeto.com

131–140 of 143 posts

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#131
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't even need a crack, it "just" needs more accurate emulation. It may turn out that cracking is the path of least resistance, but making emulation more accurate is less of a legal issue - I for one would feel comfortable working on it "in the open" (which I may well do, depending on how much I care about the first Denuvo'd switch games to come out).

Accurate emulation is extremely hard, even for ancient hardware. See this article from 2011 for example: https://arstechnica.netblogpro.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-t... It takes a 3 GHz CPU to emulate the SNES accurately. You can do with less, obviously, but you will notice differences in some games. With modern hardware, I don't think perfectly accurate emulation will ever be possible. We don't have that for the PS2…

If denuvo does anything that actually requires cycle-accurate emulation, I'll eat my hat.

Modern hardware is easier to emulate "accurately", simply because the real hardware does not behave as consistently as, say, a 6502 core. DRAM and cache latency are variable, and the core/bus frequencies are scaling up and down all the time. Furthermore, the coupling between the CPU and GPU is more asynchronous than it used to be.

Your emulator doesn't have to hit any specific timings, becaure there aren't any - it just has to be within some range of plausibility.

I wouldn't be surprised if denuvo does make use of timing to some extent, but it won't need cycle-accurate emulation to defeat, just fudging the numbers to get close enough.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#132
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just drift, even though that statistically is more likely to happen in JoyCons, there were/are quite a few issues with Switch controllers: * Big connectivity issues for a long while after launch(I couldn't play on my couch with the switch in front of my TV) * Aforementioned drift * Sticky buttons on Pro controllers, those still happen * None of the Nintendo controllers correctly advertise polling rate for BT…

"Big connectivity issues for a long while after launch(I couldn't play on my couch with the switch in front of my TV)" Did they somehow fix that? I basically gave up on my Switch for that reason. Having to lean forward on the couch to get the controller to reliably work was a dealbreaker.

I feel like it's better, they must have boosted the transmit power or something - it was basically unusable, so they probably had no choice. I can use them in that spot now anyway.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#133
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some crazy rose tinted glasses here. Back in the CS 1.6 and CS:S days community admins would only catch straight up rage hacks, most aimbots and triggerbots would fly under the radar unless caught by clientside anti-cheat. But sure, we can pretend that cheaters don’t matter as long as it’s not blatantly obvious to all other players.

We used vote kick to get rid of them. The server would clear quickly if the vote failed so it wasn't a huge issue.

But there was no way for you to know if that person was just really good or using cheats with vaguely legit settings.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#134
post #10

Denuvo "copy protection" is so universally loathed by PC gamers that several publishers have ended up removing it in updates to their games, for example Mass Effect Legendary Edition. https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/mass-effect-legendary-e... Note how getting rid of Denuvo also saved about one gigabyte (!!) of disk space. Denuvo slowed some games down so much that playing online with a cracked version is conside…

I audibly scoffed when I read “As with all other Denuvo solutions, the technology integrates seamlessly into the build toolchain with no impact on the gaming experience.”

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#135
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you're not alone, but AFAIK every time it's actually been studied piracy appears to actually improve overall sales. Given the number of those studies that were leaked because they were run by DRM-happy companies, I'm inclined to believe them. So: You might not be the only one, but statistically your conclusion, perhaps counter-intuitively, doesn't hold out.

What do you think is the gold standard study on this subject? I’ve seen this claim repeated often, but never with good evidence.

It also feel ripe for confounding factors. It seems likely that popular games will both sell well and be aggressively pirated. I'm not sure how obw could control this well enough to tease out cause and effect.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#136
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devs can do whatever they want server side. Leave the client machine alone. But also, at the end of the day, they're just games. I think we started taking things a bit too seriously.

I think you're missing the point that cheater ruins games for everyone, so people leave and just don't play those games anymore.

I think you're missing the point that you can stop cheaters without needing anti-cheat on their own computers.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#137
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was nothing close to Denuvo when games were sold on floppies. I'd happily go back to a time when we had to worry about code wheels or finding the first word on a certain page of the manual instead of having your entire system infected with malware giving access to your personal data/files and having your machine's performance crippled.

That’s not what Denuvo does. The only meaningful difference between Denuvo and floppy-DRM is that Denuvo employs a bit more sophisticated obfuscation scheme.

> The only meaningful difference between Denuvo and floppy-DRM is that Denuvo employs a bit more sophisticated obfuscation scheme.

Funny, I don't remember any code wheel having kernel level access to my system... They also never caused performance issues https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/282924-denuvo-really-does...

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#138
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what Denuvo does. The only meaningful difference between Denuvo and floppy-DRM is that Denuvo employs a bit more sophisticated obfuscation scheme.

> The only meaningful difference between Denuvo and floppy-DRM is that Denuvo employs a bit more sophisticated obfuscation scheme. Funny, I don't remember any code wheel having kernel level access to my system... They also never caused performance issues https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/282924-denuvo-really-does...

Ah, you’re talking about Denuvo anti-cheat which is a separate product from the same company. Not the “core” Denuvo product.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#139
post #10

Denuvo "copy protection" is so universally loathed by PC gamers that several publishers have ended up removing it in updates to their games, for example Mass Effect Legendary Edition. https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/mass-effect-legendary-e... Note how getting rid of Denuvo also saved about one gigabyte (!!) of disk space. Denuvo slowed some games down so much that playing online with a cracked version is conside…

Your totally valid point aside, GPUs have cratered. There’s actually a glut of them now. The 3090ti price was recently cut in half and the rumor mill is the 40 series was over provisioned based on crypto demand which has now also cratered, so there will be a lot of stock on the market. Now is a good time to look at upgrading if you haven’t in a bit.

While that might be true prices are still above MSRP from 2 years ago while distributors have full warehouses and arent budging.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#140
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point that cheater ruins games for everyone, so people leave and just don't play those games anymore.

I think you're missing the point that you can stop cheaters without needing anti-cheat on their own computers.

That's very naive, server side detection is not enough.
Post reply on HN