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Mainnet Merge Announcement

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#401

Post by jcfrei »

jacobn wrote: post #359

Has there been any resolution to the issues raised in https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1560070819518234624.html ? My reading of the concerns is that USDC has effective fork veto, and that with PoS the chain would be subject to OFAC, which would effectively destroy it. (my reading may well be incorrect / the concerns irrelevant)

If the majority of validators adhere to OFAC regulations then your chance of getting a transaction approved that violates OFAC drops. Anybody can be a validator but if the majority of validators choose to adhere to these rules then that's what you end up with. Crypto isn't successful because it creates some anarcho-capitalist alternative universe (though that was the initial impetus). And the die-hard bitcoin followers who believe so are slowly seeing their market cap falling below that of ether.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#402

Post by dang »

Related. Others?

The Merge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32535059 - Aug 2022 (387 comments)

Proof-of-Stake is better than Proof-of-Work; the Merge won’t fix other problems - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32531655 - Aug 2022 (44 comments)

“The Merge,” the biggest change in Ethereum history - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32523763 - Aug 2022 (15 comments)

The Merge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32519340 - Aug 2022 (175 comments)

Ethereum merge on schedule after successful Goerli test merge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32429380 - Aug 2022 (1 comment)

Ethereum Goerli testnet merge goes live before move to proof-of-stake - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32427992 - Aug 2022 (310 comments)

Will GPU mining end after the Merge (formerly called ETH 2.0)? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048468 - July 2022 (35 comments)

Ethereum Proof-of-Stake - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32012352 - July 2022 (326 comments)

Ethereum mining is going away, and miners are not happy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31772418 - June 2022 (23 comments)

Why Proof of Stake? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25006793 - Nov 2020 (35 comments)

Ethereum Proof of Stake FAQs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18814409 - Jan 2019 (11 comments)

Proof of Stake or Proof of Work, What's the Difference? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18369593 - Nov 2018 (107 comments)

Ethereum Foundation Releases Alpha Casper Proof of Stake Testnet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16042070 - Dec 2017 (199 comments)

Ethereum Proof of Stake FAQ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15054903 - Aug 2017 (120 comments)

Proof of Stake - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13001511 - Nov 2016 (77 comments)

Long Read: Alternatives for Proof of Work, Part 1: Proof of Stake - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10091773 - Aug 2015 (3 comments)

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#403

Post by pkulak »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #10

Is it incorrect to say that ethereum is now entirely centralized with some extra steps? Like, you have this proof of stake thing, but the only reason it works is because there's just a small number of validators, which is just going to be the ethereum foundation and friends. edit: putting this at the top because nobody is responding on topic. I am NOT talking about the class of people who stake 32 eth to validate nod…

Wait, I'm confused. Why exactly is this low-effort FUD post pinned to the top?

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#404

Post by baobabKoodaa »

TakeBlaster16 wrote: post #53
steeleduncan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite far from true > but now it is just managed by the big holders To have any influence during the proof of work days you needed a server farm. This was also restricted to a small elite who could, if they wished, censor transactions.

It's incorrect to say PoW miners can censor transactions. With PoS, the big players control the small players. If the minority doesn't play along, their funds will be slashed by the procotol. If 66% of validators censor you, your transaction will never be finalized. With PoW, the big players cannot coerce the small players in any way. Everyone independently controls their own blocks. If 66% of miners censor you, your…

> With PoW, the big players cannot coerce the small players in any way. Everyone independently controls their own blocks. If 66% of miners censor you, your transaction will merely take 3x as long to be confirmed.

This is false. If miners controlling 66% of hash power decide to censor you, they can ignore any blocks produced by the minority who include your transaction.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#405

Post by ethbr0 »

Karunamon wrote: post #369
ethbr0 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would suggest to stop spamming the HN comment section and read the introductory articles people helpfully linked you to.

Yep, this is what was said. It is not an argument for or against any point under discussion. Ad hominem is "you are wrong because you (fill in the blank)". It is not "go read the articles given to you". "You are wrong because you are an idiot" is ad hominem. "You are wrong" is denial. "You are an idiot" is insult.

"You are spamming the HN comments and didn't read links, therefore your question is invalid, because of who asked it" is ad hominem.

It's easy enough not to reply. No need to get an attitude about it.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#406

Post by meltyness »

rglullis wrote: post #364
meltyness wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you seem to be suggesting is that, there's some collective with an immutable interest in maintaining ETH-stability, ETH-usefulness?

1) Not specific to Ethereum, but to its goals. For me, turning a profit is secondary to the goal of having a permissionless and censorship-resistant way for cross-border payments. At the moment, I believe that Ethereum (as an ecosystem) is the closest to make that a reality because it has the largest developer mindshare and the Foundation seems to be the only one playing the long game. 2) I am not speaking as a "coll…

I did some digging and the principles are elucidated by vitalik on his blog.[0] The principles are based on the fact that proof of work is antisocial, impractical or unrealistic. The 6 times this was discussed last year[1] in the ethereum devs meeting on zoom might also be of-interest.

[0]: https://vitalik.ca/general/2016/12/29/pos_design.html [1]: https://github.com/ethereum/pm/issues/361

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#407

Post by operator-name »

josu wrote: post #228
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First - clearly reducing the environmental impact of anything by this much is pro-humanity. How long until BTC follows suit?

Never. PoW is a fundamental part of what makes bitcoin valuable.

It should be clear that a lot of Bitcoin's value is in its established history, legacy and to some extent trust. This is it's key differentiator to any other chain. PoW is part of Bitcoin's history and legacy, but it isn't PoW itself that gives bitcoin value.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#408

Post by MR4D »

dannyw wrote: post #296
MR4D wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who slashes the Slashers? (with apologies to The Watchmen) EDIT: Clarification - once a slasher posts the violation, who removes the ether?

Every Ethereum client (whether you are a staker or not; you can run a full node without staking!) recognises slashing transactions, and debits the balance of the misbehaving staker in their records. In other words, the blockchain; in the same way that it's not _miners_ / stakers who process transactions on bitcoin or ethereum ; miners / stakers only decide _ordering_ but everyone who runs an Ethereum client is proces…

So, since the client is debiting the slasher, then THAT transaction is an ether transaction on the chain, and it gets reviewed just like any other transaction as well?

Thanks for your answer!

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#409

Post by yreg »

stavros wrote: post #68
camjw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic but have you got any recommendations on stuff to read to set up a GPU at home to run stable diffusion?

If you have a GPU that has more than 4 GB VRAM, you should be able to easily run it: https://github.com/basujindal/stable-diffusion I didn't manage to run it on mine, as it segfaults, but I've heard of people running it fine on an old 1060 (which I have too).

Anyone tried on an intel Mac? I'm ok with Bootcamp.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#410

Post by 735409264082 »

potatototoo99 wrote: post #23
spywaregorilla wrote: post #10

Is it incorrect to say that ethereum is now entirely centralized with some extra steps? Like, you have this proof of stake thing, but the only reason it works is because there's just a small number of validators, which is just going to be the ethereum foundation and friends. edit: putting this at the top because nobody is responding on topic. I am NOT talking about the class of people who stake 32 eth to validate nod…

Yes, it is correct. It was already much more centralized than for instance bitcoin, due to the difficulty in having a validator node, but now it is just managed by the big holders and that's that. Furthermore, they will censor transactions according to US laws at least, and if you try to validate and not censor, you will get your staked coins taken from you by the protocol (as opposed to PoW, where you just fail to g…

If they try that Ethereum will fork and I (and everyone I have any interest in interacting with) will be on the non-censored fork.

With the old system, miners could try to sabotage our fork if most hashing power were to be on the censored fork. With this update, that would not be possible as the censors would lose their money on the non-censored fork and therefore be unable to stake. The relative power of the forks no longer matter as they cannot attack each other anymore.

Ethereum is becoming more decentralized and permissionless as a result of this change.

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