Things people blamed on bicycles • Hacker News Board

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#651

Post by bluecalm » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #525

bluecalm wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, it seems theft is low in countries where they cut hands for it. Bike theft is a very harmful crime. It stops the move to healthier lifestyle, it leaves people, often poor ones who don't have cars without means of transportation and it cause many to not commute by bike. I want aggressive policing, including trap bikes set up by the police to fish out potential thieves and lock them for years once caught, alternat…

> Bike theft is a very harmful crime. Yes it is, but I disagree that turning bike theft into a 20-year sentence is going to help. > Idk, it seems theft is low in countries where they cut hands for it. Russia has 99% conviction rate, long sentences and torture in prisons, yet crime rate is sky high. US has more prisoner and tougher sentenses than UK, but UK has less crime Half the people here are engineers, think like…

You're repeating the old trope that tough punishment doesn't work. Look at the theft statistics though:

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/theft/

Neither USA nor UK have tough punishment for theft. Theft is different than violent crime as that is most often caused by emotions/rage/etc. While theft is more calculated. It makes sense there is little consideration to punishment when committing the former but more when engaging in the latter.

Some people want to steal. Bikes are currently one of the easiest targets but if you make those difficult to steal they will move to another attractive thing like catalytic converters or purses until you lock everything. Aggressive policing and punishment wasn't tried yet in Western countries when it comes to theft. That would involve setting traps for thieves and taking the crime seriously instead of making naive calculation about the value of stolen items and ignoring long term cost and damage to social structure.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#652

Post by antihero » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

bedatadriven wrote: post #638

bluGill wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find it interesting that no one in The Netherlands wears a helmet when cycling and yet serious cycling injuries don’t seem to be a common thing Neurosurgeons in the Netherlands disagree with this, and are begging locals to wear helmets. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/10/neurologists-launch-ca... I don't know how rates of injuries compare between countries, but that is irrelevant.

There are costs and benefits to requiring helmets. Requiring a helmet has apparently been shown to depress the use of bikes for every day activities. Going grocery shopping with a bike is less convenient if you have to juggle a helmet along with a liter of milk. Less biking means roughly more pollution, more obesity, bigger roads, more car accide ts. On the other side of this equation is the death and injury that hel…

I never used to wear a helmet, and I don’t think anyone should be forced to, but countless anecdotes about people being in comas and becoming permanently brain damaged due to no-fault accidents, combined with peer pressure from everyone I know, and finding one I don’t actively despise the look of, means that now I do. If I’m going grocery shopping I simply don’t take it off in the shop. I’ve incorporated it into my own punk self-image - can’t fuck with the system if I’m in an easily avoidable coma!

Don’t really care for requiring one at all really, our bonces inside out are our own business and if people want to take that risk it’s on them.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#653

Post by jotm » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #509

throw0101a wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just need a way to deal with bike theft. Vehicle registration works, but takes a bit of effort: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el1Xznv5ge4 Vancouver had a 42% drop in theft after joining this program: * https://project529.com/garage Created by X-box co-founder: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_Allard

Where I live the organized thieves (as opposed to the local drunks) disassemble the bike and get rid of the frame ASAP. Same with cars, they park them in large car parks with no monitoring to see if it had a tracker, after a couple weeks they drive it off to disassemble (with fake plates to avoid ANPR)

Yeah, my acquaintance does something similar, collects ebikes and scooters with a GPS jammer, takes all the parts and dumps the frame.

A big waste imo, though newer models have trackers inside the battery - smart considering it's quickly becoming the most valuable part.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#654

Post by antihero » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:57 PM UTC

badlucklottery wrote: post #356

antihero wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just need a way to deal with bike theft. My number one concern is parking my pretty decent bike within view of where I’m sitting or not leaving it unattended for over five minutes. I’m insured, but I have a bond with my wheels! If anyone has recommendations for stealth theft detection/tracking devices I’m all ears.

>If anyone has recommendations for stealth theft detection/tracking devices I’m all ears. If you have a bike lock/chain that can resist bolt cutters, you're probably fine for everything other than leaving it overnight. Casual bike thieves are looking for easy money and likely aren't going to bust out an angle grinder in the middle of the day unless your bike is obviously worth a grand+.

Here in the UK thieves just use portable angle grinders that go through any lock like butter.

I have a hefty Abus “sold secure” (requirement of insurance) D lock that I lock through the frame, but I’ve watched enough lock picking lawyer to know this won’t stop thieves with angle grinders (most thieves now) or ones handy with a disc detainer pick.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#655

Post by Fricken » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #535

bluecalm wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet when you look at statistics it's almost solely drivers killing pedestrians even though the car infrastructure is 100x better and cars aren't forced to go on sidewalks. No one likes cycling on a sidewalk. People do it because either a bike path ended in a random place and they ended up on a sidewalk or they feel it's very dangerous to be on the road.

You're citing a stat that has nothing to do with my comment. You've picked deadly outcomes, which obviously favours bikes. As a pedesrian, the risk of being hit by a bike riding on the pavement is higher than by a car driving on the road. As a pedestrian I can tell you that I have been hit by bikes several times but luckily never by a car. That makes bikes more dangerous to me than cars are. Cyclists are not forced o…

These threads are loaded with comments from people talking about all the times they almost got hit by a cyclist. Almost doesn't count, you just have poor judgement is all.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#656

Post by celtain » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

bnralt wrote: post #416

desas wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're falling into the exact same trope that the person you're replying to is admonishing. Motorists running red lights, speeding up for amber lights, exceeding the speed limits, tailgating, dangerously overtaking and so on, is all so common as to be unnoteworthy. This doesn't justify cyclists running reds, but it should put it into perspective.

You almost never see a bunch of drivers arguing that it's OK to run red lights. It's quite common with cyclists; you can even look at the comments here and see several arguing that it's not a problem for cyclists to run red lights. Whether or not they're correct, it at least indicates that the behavior is much more common among cyclists.

I often see drivers arguing that not only is it ok to speed, but that drivers who obey the speed limit are actually doing something wrong!

I don't think I've ever heard of a cyclist getting mad at another cyclist for stopping at a red light. The propensity to violate traffic laws seems to be higher among drivers than cyclists.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#657

Post by pygy_ » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #605

lastofthemojito wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it there are 2 Dutch words for cycling [0]: >Crucially, the Dutch distinguish between everyday cycling (fietsen) and competitive cycling (wielrennen). Fietsers (cyclists) are found everywhere. ... The term wielrennen, on the other hand, is reserved for the sweaty, colourful and seemingly endless cycle races on which the people of Benelux are so keen. In my experience, at least in my area of the US, mo…

In the US there's a derogatory slang for the most obnoxious form of the second category: Freds. Fred is a guy on a $10k bike that treats a pedestrian and commuter heavy bike path like their own personal tour de France.

What about mamils?

Middle-aged men in lycra

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#658

Post by bertil » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

speedgoose wrote: post #596

jokoon wrote: post #248

I often discuss on the french subreddit, and it's crazy how hard some people fight back giving up their cars. The recurring excuse is a long commute and bad availability of public transit. Most people don't have a long commute, since public transit covers most french citizens, but weirdly there is a very vocal minority who live in the middle of nowhere. I keep explaining to them that they can keep driving since they'…

The vocal minority you talk about represents millions of people. And they cannot really move near train stations, they can be very far away or in much more expensive areas.

23% of the French population is more than 6km from a train station [1], which is considered close enough to bike. That's 15.6 million people. Assuming those are families of 2.2 people on average, they would need 7 million cars. That’s 18% of the current 38 million cars in France.

We could have five times fewer cars, and half of the country’s carbon footprint if the 31 million car owners who don’t need them gave theirs up. But somehow, the 7 million necessary cars are used as a loincloth to shelter the rest from poisoning everyone else

[1] https://www.cairn.info/revue-transports-urbains-2014-3-page-...

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#659

Post by mytailorisrich » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #655

mytailorisrich wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're citing a stat that has nothing to do with my comment. You've picked deadly outcomes, which obviously favours bikes. As a pedesrian, the risk of being hit by a bike riding on the pavement is higher than by a car driving on the road. As a pedestrian I can tell you that I have been hit by bikes several times but luckily never by a car. That makes bikes more dangerous to me than cars are. Cyclists are not forced o…

These threads are loaded with comments from people talking about all the times they almost got hit by a cyclist. Almost doesn't count, you just have poor judgement is all.

Victim blaming is not a very effective strategy to advance a cause...

Edit: as said I was actually hit twice. I don't keep track of the near misses...

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#660

Post by runarberg » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #431

wkjagt wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason is that being really respectful around cyclists is an important part of driving lessons in The Netherlands. And I think you can fail your driving test if you pass a bike too close, open your door without looking if a cyclists is coming from behind, or passing over a bike lane at an intersection without looking. I am from The Netherlands and I only realized since moving to Canada that my home country is…

>I find it interesting that no one in The Netherlands wears a helmet when cycling and yet serious cycling injuries don’t seem to be a common thing Neurosurgeons in the Netherlands disagree with this, and are begging locals to wear helmets. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/10/neurologists-launch-ca... I don't know how rates of injuries compare between countries, but that is irrelevant.

This is a debate that pops up a lot. I don’t think there is any consensus among health officials, but I think most public health officials tend to side on the no-mandatory but actively encourage helmets.

There are a couple of problem with mandatory helmets, including:

* It discourages a healthy activity.

* It shifts the responsibility from the person causing to danger (drivers) to the potential victims.

* It creates a false sense of safety (e.g. biking slower reduces risk of injuries far more then a helmet).