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“We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

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Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#51

Post by GauntletWizard »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #42
CamperBob2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, yes, poorly phrased. We don't know if he's guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and probably won't, because presidents and former presidents are immune to prosecution in this country. It's always possible the he had legitimate reasons for storing SC information outside a SCIF. No one can think of any, including his own legal team, but hey, ex-President, right?

Are you aware that Trump could have tweeted a copy of every top secret document the government has and it would have been perfectly legal?

Yes, Trump definitionally cannot have leaked secret documents while he was president, because he had the authority to declassify them and the act of distributing them would have been a form of that declassification.

Reality Winner had no such authority to declassify documents.

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#52

Post by glorygut123 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #40

"sussy General Michael Hayden" The author shows their bias. I think it's good that US intelligence uses every tool at their disposal against foreign threats. Tell me why they shouldn't? What is the alternative?

The scariest sentence in the English language - "The ends justify the means."

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#53

Post by wyldfire »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #42
CamperBob2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, yes, poorly phrased. We don't know if he's guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and probably won't, because presidents and former presidents are immune to prosecution in this country. It's always possible the he had legitimate reasons for storing SC information outside a SCIF. No one can think of any, including his own legal team, but hey, ex-President, right?

Are you aware that Trump could have tweeted a copy of every top secret document the government has and it would have been perfectly legal?

Trump's duty as a civil servant, whose role included "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" -- that ended on January 20, 2021. Along with the end of his duty, ended all of the power he wielded. In terms of real legal powers, he's just like you and me.

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#54

Post by shadowgovt »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #17
rocket_surgeron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality Winner was released from prison 14 months ago.

Cool, I didn't know that. Now let's pardon her.

It's always up to the President, but in this case there's very little grounds to pardon her. Her actions were pretty cut and dry example of leaking classified material.

If anything, a Presidential pardon from the current administration would be seen as a highly partisan move in an already politically-agitated climate and make everything worse.

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#55

Post by wyldfire »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #46
Consultant32452 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that Trump could have tweeted a copy of every top secret document the government has and it would have been perfectly legal?

Maybe. That's not what he did, though. If you think it's a good idea to allow a former POTUS to retroactively and implicitly declassify information he is caught with after leaving office, or to issue a sweeping declaration that any documents he takes out of the Oval Office are automatically declassified, I suspect you won't be as blasé when someone of the opposing political party does it.

"Buttery Males!"

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#56

Post by hammock »

lupire wrote: post #39
Teever wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people make hot take comments like this? There's obviously a difference between metadata and other data, that's why we have a word for it. What are you trying to say exactly?

People who spy on metadata make dishonest claims like "it isn't an invasion of privacy since we are only collecting metadata". > There's obviously a difference between metadata and other data, No. Your metadata is my data; that's the point. "Meta" is an additional contextual characteristic of some (I'd say most ) data.

This. Metadata for the intelligence commmunity is a double-edged sword: is it something less, meaning it’s OK to mass collect? Or is it more, meaning it’s enough to justify a killing?

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#57

Post by pclmulqdq »

the_lonely_road wrote: post #49
ImHereToVote wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer to be tried in a court of law, you?

That's a false equivalence though and not what the alternative option is here. The government was killing its enemies 100 years before the word digital was invented and will continue to do so as long as government exist. They will use every technology invented in the pursuit of doing so. Blaming metadata signature based approaches is no different than blaming their use of satellites, metallurgy, hell the wheel is a b…

In 2010, an American citizen was killed in a drone strike by the US military, without a trial or any attempt to make an arrest. This was the first time in history that a US civilian was killed by the US military. Before 2010, we were doing just fine without executing citizens on suspect legal grounds.

Edit: Edited to state that this was not fire of combatants in a combat zone.

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#58

Post by the_only_law »

kibwen wrote: post #34
mikece wrote: post #8

"Signature strikes" -- the target has a signature (movement, data, use of a satellite phone or specific cellular number, entourage, etc) that matches that of an HVT (high value taget) that is authorized for termination by drone strike. The CIA has killed lots of the wrong people because "signature strikes" don't require second source intelligence to verify who the target is (eg: is the person using the satellite phon…

> As an American I'm ashamed that my government has done things like this and I fully support those responsible for these programs to be tried as war criminals. Same and seconded. That includes presidents too; take every living president and have them stand for these crimes. There's no reason that being president should be carte blanche for murder.

The has CIA tortured US citizens, destroyed the evidence and got away with it, I doubt anything will happen.

Re: “We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

#60

Post by donatj »

throwaway0asd wrote: post #20

To me discussions about privacy often seem like bullshit. Here is a comment I wrote yesterday about a former AdWords employee as privacy violation apologist: Hypocritically people bitch about intrusive data collection from governments and yet simultaneously give away the same data, and encourage others to do the same, and more to private companies knowing that data will be weaponized against them. As such it’s almost…

Companies don't kill me. It's the government I'm worried about, and the governments of the world have literally no intentions on respecting your privacy.
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