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IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

9to5mac.com

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Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#51

Post by wiredfool »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #45
mmastrac wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple: If the adhesive strip breaks, attempt to retrieve the rest of the strip with ESD-safe tweezers. If you can’t retrieve the rest of the strip, replace the top case Jesus. This is not what I'd consider "repairable". And that's not the only place in the manual where Apple just says "toss the whole top case out".

I replaced a screen on an iPhone 4 or 5 with a kit from iFixit. It was painful with the very basic tools provided and no magnifying glasses or understanding of what success was supposed to feel like. The parts aren't small, they are tiny, like 3mm screws, tiny bits of adhesive, things that are very fragile, etc. It took me like 3 hours. Experiences like that make me nope out of some DIY things.

I replaced the keyboard on a unibody era MBP. (2011 ish, the one with the dvd drive that needed to have the hard drive cable replaced every few years because it would wear at a corner and short against the case).

It had 50+ absolutely tiny screws, requiring a 000 Phillips head, probably about the size of the little ones in iPhone 6s, but all about 2mm long.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#52

Post by dkonofalski »

pilgrimfff wrote: post #32
rocket_surgeron wrote: post #19

>This time, along with the manuals, Apple is presenting DIY repairers with a excruciating gauntlet of hurdles: read 162 pages of documentation without getting intimidated I read the PDF. https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2083/en_US/mac... It seems highly likely to me that anyone claiming this document is intimidating either has not read it or is lying for some reason. In many respects, the Apple document…

> iFixit praises the M1 MacBook Air service manuals by saying “they’re in-depth, mostly logical, and well worth an additional repairability point,” This is the service manual you're referencing. The one they're complaining about it is the M1 MacBook Pro. Here's the actual manual referenced: https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2085/en_US/mac... And here's iFixIt's actual complaint: > it’s not 162 pages becau…

So it's a temporary situation to do it this way until they can get enough stock and work their supply chain to provide additional batteries? What a non-story.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#53

Post by mminer237 »

oefrha wrote: post #21

> Our 14″ MacBook Pro battery replacement guide is 26 steps. That might not seem like a very speedy guide, but the Surface Pro 6 is twice that long, and iPad guides can be upwards of a hundred steps. In the scheme of things, 26 steps is pretty good. Imagine our surprise when we found that Apple’s official MacBook Pro battery replacement method clocks in at 162 pages. 162 pages is the entire damn manual[1], not just b…

You'll note that at the beginning of the three-page battery section, it says that you must have already removed every other part from the other 159 pages. The battery section is basically just "whatever's left doesn't come apart, so replace all that for a new battery". I think saying it takes a 162-page manual is fair.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#54

Post by smoldesu »

tpmoney wrote: post #41
falcolas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your car repair manual dictate that replacing the battery and alternator includes also replacing the unibody (including the driver controls, though not the seats) with a unit provided only by the car manufacturer? Having used a few workshop manuals, I do get your point. But those manuals provide the advantage of actually letting you repair cars without having to replace the entire unibody when you change an oil…

I imagine the replacement process for an EVs battery pack also is involved and requires a lot of work. I also imagine the official replacement process will not involve individual cell replacement and will likely be an entire pack that may also include BMS units or other components.

> I also imagine the official replacement process will not involve individual cell replacement

Since when has it involved that? Even back when cellphones were repairable, trying to fix a broken battery by manipulating the cells is a suicide mission. I get that you're trying to illustrate that "density has a repairability cost", but I think that's entirely redundant, since:

- Apple can throw money at this issue and fix it. No private interest on the planet has even remotely as much research funding as Apple. If companies like Framework can manage it, then so can Apple.

- Apple's devices are getting larger, and their SOCs are getting more dense. There's more room inside the Macbook Pro than ever before, which leaves plenty of space to reinforce the device and improve it's disassembly process.

- Making repairable/sustainable technology doesn't seem to impede any of Apple's goals. Adding an M.2 slot on the Macbook would have no perceivable downside. Removing the internal adhesive could help improve the device's lifespan and make it possible to reassemble without additional components. Offering a matte/plastic display option would also give users the option to own a Macbook that doesn't break when it falls from waist height.

So, I don't really buy this. When people come forward and speculate on Apple's behalf, I feel like they're forgetting that we're talking about the most powerful company on Earth. Apple can move mountains, and you're trying to justify why they can't offer more granular repair options? This is the exact same supply-chain pettiness that people used to applaud Apple for, and now that everyone feels the impact of it, why do we still defend them for abusing capitalism and hurting everyone in the process?

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#55

Post by reaperducer »

rocket_surgeron wrote: post #19

>This time, along with the manuals, Apple is presenting DIY repairers with a excruciating gauntlet of hurdles: read 162 pages of documentation without getting intimidated I read the PDF. https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2083/en_US/mac... It seems highly likely to me that anyone claiming this document is intimidating either has not read it or is lying for some reason. In many respects, the Apple document…

It seems highly likely to me that anyone claiming this document is intimidating either has not read it or is lying for some reason.

I used to be a fan of iFixIt, and have even bought one of its larger tool kits, but have lost respect for it in the last few years.

In part, because any time Apple does anything, iFixIt is there with a snarky criticism. Like it just really really really needs the clicks. I don't mind people being critical of Apple, but what comes out of iFixIt these days is mostly very solidly in whiny baby/grumpy old man territory.

Second, because I've tried four times to repair items using iFixIt guides, and in every case the guide was incomplete, inaccurate, or the steps just sort of ended without finishing the job. Twice I was able to finish the repairs on my own. Twice, the device was ruined.

Many iFixIt guides seem to start out well-written and documented, but eventually get all hand-wavey. More often than not, when I've looked up a guide, it ends with "Reverse the steps to reassemble," which is not reassuring, considering the complexity with which modern electronics are built, and because some of the parts were destroyed (adhesive strips, for example) on the way.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#56

Post by mminer237 »

rocket_surgeron wrote: post #40
jm_l wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they make a totally fair critique. The quote you pulled out is specifically about the fact that battery replacement alone takes 162 pages to get through. They also describe the manual as “ they’re in-depth, mostly logical, and well worth an additional repairability point” higher up in the article.

>The quote you pulled out is specifically about the fact that battery replacement alone takes 162 pages to get through. But that's not true. The table of contents has links to the small subset of pages needed to be read to replace the battery. There are over a dozen chapters and the page count includes parts lists, safety and regulatory notices, and information about tools. My Webster's Unabridged Dictionary has 2,12…

You must be reading a different manual than what they're talking about.

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2085/en_US/mac...

You'll note that at the beginning of the three-page battery section, it says that you must have already removed every other part from the other 159 pages. The battery section is basically just "whatever's left doesn't come apart, so replace all that for a new battery". I think saying it takes a 162-page manual is fair.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#58

Post by reaperducer »

tpmoney wrote: post #35
mmastrac wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple: If the adhesive strip breaks, attempt to retrieve the rest of the strip with ESD-safe tweezers. If you can’t retrieve the rest of the strip, replace the top case Jesus. This is not what I'd consider "repairable". And that's not the only place in the manual where Apple just says "toss the whole top case out".

Anyone who’s ever repaired a car has encountered one form or another of a fastener or hose that breaks or drops and can’t be easily removed because it’s in a bad place, and leaving it where it is won’t cause any harm. Does it really surprise us that small space computers would have their own version of this?

Anyone who’s ever repaired a car has encountered one form or another of a fastener or hose that breaks or drops and can’t be easily removed because it’s in a bad place

Can confirm. I ended up bringing a car to the dealer to replace a certain light bulb because it was not possible for me to put my man-sized hand through the metal hole to reach the bulb area. Fortunately, the dealer did it for free.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#59

Post by tarentel »

lisper wrote: post #24
tarentel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a slightly better headline than the one they changed it to which makes no sense.

Huh??? All three headlines (the original iFixit, the 9to5Mac clickjack, and the HN version) are essentially identical: iFixit: Self Repair Program actually makes M1 MacBooks less repairable (9to5Mac) IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable (HN) Apple’s Self-Repair Program Manages to Make MacBooks Seem Less Repairable (iFixit)

They're all terrible. But "seem less repairable" and "actually make _ less repairable" have two different meanings. The latter makes it sound as if having the tools and instructions somehow make doing something harder than by not having them.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#60

Post by srvmshr »

I glanced through the manual linked in answers elsewhere. The Apple manual is very detailed and lays out the risks you could potentially get into - and thats a good thing. At this point, iFixit criticism looks more like a rant. FWIW, Apple must be going through this process - its not like they have shortcuts they arent willing to part with.
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