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IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

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Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#41

Post by tpmoney »

falcolas wrote: post #26
MrFoof wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official workshop manual from the manufacturer for my car (which includes full engine assembly!) — the same one used by all of its dealer techs - is over 6400 pages. It is loaded with an absurd number of detailed diagrams, torque specifications, required tools, checklists, etc. Does that make my car less repairable? Or does it provide all the information necessary for someone to correctly perform repair or mainte…

Does your car repair manual dictate that replacing the battery and alternator includes also replacing the unibody (including the driver controls, though not the seats) with a unit provided only by the car manufacturer? Having used a few workshop manuals, I do get your point. But those manuals provide the advantage of actually letting you repair cars without having to replace the entire unibody when you change an oil…

I imagine the replacement process for an EVs battery pack also is involved and requires a lot of work. I also imagine the official replacement process will not involve individual cell replacement and will likely be an entire pack that may also include BMS units or other components.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#42

Post by falcolas »

dewey wrote: post #38
falcolas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, providing well detailed manuals on how to work around Apple's hostility to repairing is a good thing. A $500 replacement part to replace a battery is not a good thing. I'd also say that your average end user is probably still going to be breaking tabs. Applying proper force requires physical calibration; calibration takes practice.

> I'd also say that your average end user is probably still going to be breaking tabs The average end user is not going to do the repair themselves.

Which is a relatively new phenomenon when it comes to batteries. It's only been a handful of year since I could swap them out with a couple of latches.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#43

Post by smoldesu »

MrFoof wrote: post #16
falcolas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

162 pages indicates that the item was not made to be repaired or replaced. 162 pages indicates that you're going to have to work around Apple's repair-hostile design to do a repair.

The official workshop manual from the manufacturer for my car (which includes full engine assembly!) — the same one used by all of its dealer techs - is over 6400 pages. It is loaded with an absurd number of detailed diagrams, torque specifications, required tools, checklists, etc. Does that make my car less repairable? Or does it provide all the information necessary for someone to correctly perform repair or mainte…

> Or does it provide all the information necessary for someone to correctly perform repair or maintenance

Well, that's the problem. Apple doesn't provide all of the necessary information to safely perform board repairs or fix mechanical failure. If you break your car's window, you can go get it replaced in an afternoon. If you break your Macbook's display, your options are to take it to an Apple Store and let them quote you a repair, or buy their $500 topcase "do it yourself" replacement kit. All roads lead back to Apple, and Apple deliberately destroys all roads to repairing your computer. This is clearly evidenced by their unbelievably coarse selection of replacement parts, forcing their customers to buy replacements for components they don't need.

In other words, it's like breaking your windshield and being told to get a new car or replace the entire chassis. Apple can fix this, and quite easily at that, but why would they? They have a direct financial incentive to keep letting Macbooks break in unfortunate ways. The most common damage (screen/display, logic board) also happens to be the most expensive, and their price is entirely artificial.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#44

Post by josephcsible »

tpmoney wrote: post #35
mmastrac wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple: If the adhesive strip breaks, attempt to retrieve the rest of the strip with ESD-safe tweezers. If you can’t retrieve the rest of the strip, replace the top case Jesus. This is not what I'd consider "repairable". And that's not the only place in the manual where Apple just says "toss the whole top case out".

Anyone who’s ever repaired a car has encountered one form or another of a fastener or hose that breaks or drops and can’t be easily removed because it’s in a bad place, and leaving it where it is won’t cause any harm. Does it really surprise us that small space computers would have their own version of this?

> leaving it where it is won’t cause any harm

But that's apparently not the case here:

> If you can’t retrieve the rest of the strip, replace the top case

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#45

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

mmastrac wrote: post #30
rocket_surgeron wrote: post #19

>This time, along with the manuals, Apple is presenting DIY repairers with a excruciating gauntlet of hurdles: read 162 pages of documentation without getting intimidated I read the PDF. https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2083/en_US/mac... It seems highly likely to me that anyone claiming this document is intimidating either has not read it or is lying for some reason. In many respects, the Apple document…

Apple: If the adhesive strip breaks, attempt to retrieve the rest of the strip with ESD-safe tweezers. If you can’t retrieve the rest of the strip, replace the top case Jesus. This is not what I'd consider "repairable". And that's not the only place in the manual where Apple just says "toss the whole top case out".

I replaced a screen on an iPhone 4 or 5 with a kit from iFixit. It was painful with the very basic tools provided and no magnifying glasses or understanding of what success was supposed to feel like. The parts aren't small, they are tiny, like 3mm screws, tiny bits of adhesive, things that are very fragile, etc. It took me like 3 hours. Experiences like that make me nope out of some DIY things.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#46

Post by dewey »

falcolas wrote: post #42
dewey wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd also say that your average end user is probably still going to be breaking tabs The average end user is not going to do the repair themselves.

Which is a relatively new phenomenon when it comes to batteries. It's only been a handful of year since I could swap them out with a couple of latches.

To be fair, batteries back then lasted a lot shorter than they do now. For my first MBP I had to buy multiple replacement batteries, for my newer ones I didn't have to do that a single time while using them much more.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#48

Post by josephcsible »

kube-system wrote: post #36
mmastrac wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple: If the adhesive strip breaks, attempt to retrieve the rest of the strip with ESD-safe tweezers. If you can’t retrieve the rest of the strip, replace the top case Jesus. This is not what I'd consider "repairable". And that's not the only place in the manual where Apple just says "toss the whole top case out".

People asked for Apple's repair manual, and they provided their repair manual. Apple isn't going to recommend you forcefully remove a LiPo, but you're free to do so if you want to do that instead.

If a car service manual said "replace the engine" (along with detailed instructions on how to do so) when a spark plug went bad, would you consider that acceptable just because the manual were released?

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#49

Post by kube-system »

josephcsible wrote: post #48
kube-system wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People asked for Apple's repair manual, and they provided their repair manual. Apple isn't going to recommend you forcefully remove a LiPo, but you're free to do so if you want to do that instead.

If a car service manual said "replace the engine" (along with detailed instructions on how to do so) when a spark plug went bad, would you consider that acceptable just because the manual were released?

There are many service manuals for cars that recommend procedures that independent auto shops and shade-tree mechanics do not follow.

Get a short in a wiring harness? The service manual for your car will almost certainly recommend replacing the entire harness which is a very labor intensive and expensive procedure. Will mechanics do this? Depends on which shop you're at and who is paying.

If there are multiple ways to solve a problem, an official service manual will typically list the safest and most repeatable solution. Rarely do they list any alternatives to this.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#50

Post by pzo »

oefrha wrote: post #21

> Our 14″ MacBook Pro battery replacement guide is 26 steps. That might not seem like a very speedy guide, but the Surface Pro 6 is twice that long, and iPad guides can be upwards of a hundred steps. In the scheme of things, 26 steps is pretty good. Imagine our surprise when we found that Apple’s official MacBook Pro battery replacement method clocks in at 162 pages. 162 pages is the entire damn manual[1], not just b…

in your linked PDF the process of removing battery is explained in 2 slide that links to dozen (literally) other steps below:

``` Bottom case

• Battery management unit flex cable

• Lid angle sensor

• Trackpad and trackpad flex cable

• Vent/antenna module

• Logic board

• Display hinge covers

• Display

• Audio board

• Fans

• MagSafe 3 board

• USB-C boards

• Touch ID board

Remove the following parts

before you begin:

• No tools are required for this procedure. Tools ```

The reassembly is just 1 slide that tells links to dozen (literally) links below:

``` Reassembly • Touch ID board

• USB-C boards

• MagSafe 3 board

• Fans

• Audio board

• Display

• Display hinge covers

• Logic board

• Vent/antenna module

• Trackpad and trackpad flex cable

• Lid angle sensor

• Battery management unit flex cable

• Bottom case ```

I wouldn't say that removing dozen of components to just remove battery (something) is user friendly.

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