Live data from Hacker News

Mainnet Merge Announcement

blog.ethereum.org

231–240 of 609 posts

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#231
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally wrong. Anybody has the ability to declare "the people with stakes did not validate correctly" In this context, what it means is that a person posted conflicting validation messages on different parts of the network, and anybody who can show the existence of two such conflicting messages can post it to the blockchain, receive a reward, and the offending validator gets slashed. (There are also other ways you ca…

What if they then show bogus evidence

The evidence isn't like a Youtube video.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes the other 49% won't accept the bad guys' blocks in their chain. Those blocks are valid, so the 49% will accept them and build off of them. At any point there is still a 49% chance the next block will be mined by a good guy. If the bad guys decide not to accept the good guys' blocks, then they are hard forking Bitcoin and will end up just like Bitcoin Cash: irrelevant. This is the exact problem PoW was de…

They are not hard-forking, it will be compatible with the original chain and original rules. There will be two competing forks, one censored, one not censored, and the censored one is longer (because 51%). Consensus rules say longer chain is valid. So it _is_ the official "bitcoin", according to consensus rules. The 51% attack is not some made up thing.

If 51% of miners decide to totally ignore the other 49% then their chain will most definitely not be the longest chain for any more than 30 minutes. Because the 49% are still using 100% of miners' work.

The only way they can maintain that chain is by a hard fork.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#233
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they then show bogus evidence

Then the software will automatically discard the evidence. I would suggest to stop spamming the HN comment section and read the introductory articles people helpfully linked you to.

It's a simple question. No need for ad hom.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#234

I can be anti-crypto and still appreciate this. First - clearly reducing the environmental impact of anything by this much is pro-humanity. (Although having the impact to begin with is another story.) Secondly from a sheer technical coordination perspective there's a feeling of pulling off a complex dance. Makes it hard for any of us to claim our workloads aren't testable!

> First - clearly reducing the environmental impact of anything by this much is pro-humanity. How long until BTC follows suit?

BTC mining will be the methane reduction solution as the market dynamics force it to be

the process generally creates some CO2, rerouting that energy on flare gas sites into power for miners, but thats much less worse than methane, and we can’t let a sustainability goal of perfect be the enemy of good

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#235
post #145
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as Bitcoin is still around crypto will have a heavy environmental asterisk attached to it. But, at least to me, this will make ethereum-based NFTs of interesting art a more morally-justifiable purchase.

the existence of ethereum as proof-of-stake makes it impossible to stop proof-of-work coins via exchange regulation/etc. It's trivial to run exchanges on ethereum and therefore they largely exist outside any possibility of regulation. Previously you could sorta leverage this in via the exchanges/etc but now there is no possibility of ever banning the environmentally-harmful PoW coins.

Your post makes many assumptions. One - existence of trustless bridges from PoW chain to Ethereum (trustful bridges are rather easy to kill). Second, regulation can be achieved in a way OFAC does it - "anyone who holds/buys this token is a felon". This drives money away from the chain, reducing its PoW budget.

And I really suspect that Ethereum will win the race anyway. At least until something really juicy appears (like private contracts, chain-managed secrets, etc).

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#236
post #47

Oh funny, I just, inspired by Stable Diffusion, ordered a 3090 ti at what I thought was a good price. Well, I have 30 days to see what happens… There could be an interesting ripple effect if GPUs become more widely available in general. «Simple division yields an estimate of 13.982 million GPUs mining Ethereum on April 16 2021.» (from https://linustechtips.com/topic/1327701-honest-question-how-... )

Off-topic but have you got any recommendations on stuff to read to set up a GPU at home to run stable diffusion?

I found this reddit post that has a guide on how to set it up. I recommend reading through the comments as well:

https://reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/wvr23n/d_how_t...

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely inane response. Most energy used by miners is not clean. And much of the world is either experiencing a large increase in energy costs or, in Europe’s case, an impending energy crisis due to the war in Ukraine.

If your answer to clean energy to just use less energy, that seems inane. Also the increase in energy costs because of the war in Ukraine is directly related to dependence on foreign fuel which is not clean. So the problem isn't energy consumption, the problem is using fossil fuels.

Lower consumption works even better than cleaner energy. Even wind/solar/nuclear has a carbon cost to it.

PoS consumes less energy than PoW. That's a win.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#238
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will become centralized, but not in the way that you think. We're likely to see base-layer transaction censorship, since nodes are no longer allowed to disagree with each other (or they'll be slashed), and far more than 33% of staked value is in the USA (and subject to OFAC compliance). I explained in more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32532604

There's a third option you didn't mention in your comment: instead of signing the block with these banned transactions (option 1), or signing an alternate block with other transactions (option 2), the node could pretend to be offline for that block (option 3). Instead of being slashed, the node would then be subject only to the much smaller inactivity leak for these blocks. The only question then is how indirect thes…

One thing to keep in mind is that Ethereum is nothing but a network of computers passing messages to each other. Those messages are considered speech from a Constitutional perspective. Same as you sending a text message to your friend. Therefore normal free speech protections almost certainly apply, and most relevantly the Brandenburg test for imminent lawless action.

Suppose Tony texts Paulie and tells him to wack a guy. That's illegal, unprotected speech, because it directly leads to imminent lawless action. Similarly the wallet owner who signs and broadcasts an Ethereum transaction to send money to North Korea would bass the Brandenburg test because it obviously leads to imminent lawless action.

The validator who builds the block that includes an illegal transaction is an interesting question. On the one hand by building the block, one could argue that they're instrumental in putting carrying out the illegal transaction. OTOH one might argue that if the transaction is in the network (and priced appropriately) it almost certainly will get included on-chain eventually. Therefore the validator might argue that it's activity doesn't create any imminent lawless activity, because the transaction being in the mempool is already fait accompli. The validator is more like the reporter writing about a crime in the newspaper.

But what I'm nearly certain of is that building on top of a chain with a previously finalized illegal transaction is okay. It's certainly not illegal to talk about a crime that's already happened. The further a block gets away from the initial block, then the less imminent the illegal action becomes. SCOTUS has historically held a very high standard for Brandenburg, which is why it's not even illegal to advocate for genocide or the violent overthrow of the American government.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost certain that is incorrect. This is an optional, expensive seeming process. e.g. https://docs.prylabs.network/docs/prysm-usage/slasher

> Running a slasher is not meant to be profitable. Slashing is meant to be rare and whistleblower rewards are purposefully low. Running a slasher is meant to be an altruistic action, and as stated, only a single, honest, properly functioning slasher needs to be active in the network to catch slashable offenses. Hmmm. It seems dangerous to rely on altruistic enforcement in a network built around economic incentives. W…

How can you detect that people are NOT running slasher nodes?

This model assumes that 1/n is honest. This is almost as safe as it gets.

Re: Mainnet Merge Announcement

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they then show bogus evidence

There's no such thing as bogus evidence. Block signatures are validated cryptographically

But all evidence needs to be voted on. Even it's just a divine truth bool, the network still needs to vote on a consensus of whether or not it says TRUE.

edit: for an example. you get hacked and lose $100M. You say fuck it, submit a slasher report that says it wasn't a valid transaction. you offer enough money to get x% of validators to agree with you.

As far as I can tell, you cannot get slashed for your vote on a slash. So lying is ok.

Post reply on HN