What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
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Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#2To me, this article perfectly captures what is wrong with legal education: students are plunking down $150,000 @ ~8.0% to learn how to support themselves practicing law, and in exchange they get three years of abstract classroom lecturing. Add into the equation documented outright fraud in employment statistics reporting on the part of law schools and you have what is legitimately a scam going on. Best of all, there's no return policy for JDs. Not even bankruptcy.
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#3This isn't just law school related. This applies to every type of college and education system, with few exceptions.
The college system does not teach practicality by design.
To do that would remove a great deal of profit...
Instead of raking in 4-5 years worth of tuition, they would only get 1-2 years.
Instead of hiring teachers that can't-do, they would need to find teachers that can-do.
Instead of keeping people pre-occupied and enrolled with bullshit curriculum that keeps you going nowhere and seeing-nothing, they would lose students as soon as those students decided this type of job was not for them (rarely anyone knows what they want to do at this age).
The college system is sold to us on the premises that 1) you'll be trained for the job that 2) you will most certainly be getting right after the degree is awarded. Neither of these things is true.
I've been there. It was not worth it at all. While there are a few exceptions, people mostly play on their egos with degrees and such. There is nothing quite as useless as a new college graduate that thinks he has value.
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#4The most shocking thing about the article was the $575 million that is spent on law review research! Talk about a different government subsidy!
I know basic science research is important but academic law research?
Exhibit #1 (the second item under "Articles" (NSFW, depending on where you work))
http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content...
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#5This isn't just law school related. This applies to every type of college and education system, with few exceptions. The college system does not teach practicality by design . To do that would remove a great deal of profit... Instead of raking in 4-5 years worth of tuition, they would only get 1-2 years. Instead of hiring teachers that can't-do, they would need to find teachers that can-do. Instead of keeping people…
Colleges have never advertised themselves as employee factories. The value-add for college should be in giving people the ability to think for themselves; to figure things out.
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#6It is easy to teach and learn the practicalities of a profession. But it is the difficulty to enter, the amount of abstract thinking and study required plus the prestige that gets you higher salaries in the end. It is like saying, look I have made it so far so I am pretty able to do anything if you train me more. If Universities were employee factories then salaries would be lower, service prices would be lower (most people think this is a good thing) and requirements from students would be practically non-existent.
Take another example. A 30 year old nurse gets far more practical training than an M.D. but after she masters the practicalities, it is simply an endless repetition. MDs on the other hand are trained to solve problems and in just 4-5 years of practical training are able to do that in a higher degree.
Apprenticeship has been established in the service provider's section from the beginning of time, it is hard to beat with some extra classes in the University
PS: My first comment on HN, hello to everyone, you have a great community here
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#7This isn't just law school related. This applies to every type of college and education system, with few exceptions. The college system does not teach practicality by design . To do that would remove a great deal of profit... Instead of raking in 4-5 years worth of tuition, they would only get 1-2 years. Instead of hiring teachers that can't-do, they would need to find teachers that can-do. Instead of keeping people…
Colleges have never advertised themselves as employee factories. The value-add for college should be in giving people the ability to think for themselves; to figure things out.
Why does that have to cost $150,000?
Why can't "thinking for yourself" and "figuring things out" be combined with examples from relevant legal systems rather than examples from post-feudal England?
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#8This isn't just law school related. This applies to every type of college and education system, with few exceptions. The college system does not teach practicality by design . To do that would remove a great deal of profit... Instead of raking in 4-5 years worth of tuition, they would only get 1-2 years. Instead of hiring teachers that can't-do, they would need to find teachers that can-do. Instead of keeping people…
Colleges have never advertised themselves as employee factories. The value-add for college should be in giving people the ability to think for themselves; to figure things out.
> Colleges have never advertised themselves as employee factories.
That's exactly how colleges sell themselves.
> The value-add for college should be in giving people the ability to think for themselves; to figure things out.
And yet they fail.
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#9I've read this same article every quarter for 5+ years now. In another 10 or 15 years, law schools may start to focus more on the importance of clinical education, but the change will continue to be slow.
The best and most valuable experiences I had in law school, bar none, were participating my school's clinic and volunteer income tax assistance site. I graduated in 2008, and still learn something new every day about how to be a good lawyer. If that doesn't continue for the rest of my career, it's my own damn fault.
Re: What They Don’t Teach Law Students: Lawyering
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Colleges have never advertised themselves as employee factories. The value-add for college should be in giving people the ability to think for themselves; to figure things out.
> Colleges have never advertised themselves as employee factories. That's exactly how colleges sell themselves. > The value-add for college should be in giving people the ability to think for themselves; to figure things out. And yet they fail.
I had an extraordinary experience at university, though I did not follow the same path professionally. It gave me a grounding in self-responsibility and access to a million kinds of wonders, and while I wish I had taken some CS and mathematics classes as my degree is heavily arts-based, I could pick these things up later auto-didactically (though it's a life long dream to return to get a CS degree). I don't think my education experience failed me at all and many of those around me: it ultimately came down to personal passion to make the most of where you are.