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Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

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Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#111

Post by reaperducer »

charles_f wrote: post #32

I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…

Remote tracking / start? Why not.

Remote start does not require a subscription or the internet. We've had remote start for at least half a century with just a keyfob.

Satellite maps with updates? Maybe.

Does not require a subscription or the internet. My car's satnav is updated via a USB. $200 from the dealer, but is completely optional. Maybe I do it once every five years. Maybe never. I don't need up-to-the-second maps of hiking trails 4,000 miles away from a place my car will never visit.

Moreover, the last time I looked into updating via USB, there was a community online that had instructions for doing it for free with data, I think from Garmin.

The MBAs want us to believe we are required to be tethered to recurring charges for the rest of our lives. With very few exceptions (electricity, water, etc.) we aren't.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#112

Post by em-bee »

vasco wrote: post #65
charles_f wrote: post #32

I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…

This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…

i have no problem with optimizing manufacturing. you want to turn off a feature if i pay less, sure. but that doesn't explain the need for a recurring monthly charge. because there is no need for that at all.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#113

Post by drumhead »

It sounds like the Auto makers want to keep profiting off the used car market as well.

I would say the solution would be not to buy cars from makers that introduce subs. But people will do it anyway. Sounds like a new world of perpetual renting.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#114

Post by LordDragonfang »

adventured wrote: post #59
sbf501 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to stop this is with regulation This is a controversial point, but a salient one. If EVERY manufacturer makes a smart TV, then there are no longer dumb TVs. It is collusion of a sort, not a monopoly. One could argue: just don't buy a TV, but there is some weird kind of inertia behind the purchasing of a TV that is immune to that claim. It is not essential to own one, but it shouldn't have to be a surve…

Quoted post unavailable.

Providing just enough aid to sustain a resource-draining proxy war against one of the US's geopolitical rivals while Europe pays for it in trade, food, and energy prices is an interesting take on "keeping Europe safe".

Setting aside the morality of the war, (Russia is clearly in the wrong) the current state of affairs in Europe is much better for the US's geopolitical interests than it is for the EU's.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#115

Post by dlmiller »

prh8 wrote: post #69
dlmiller wrote: post #13

I have a 2021 Subaru that can only remote start via the App that requires a subscription to their "STARLINK Safety and Security" service. It comes with 3 free years, however its $99 a year after that. Not as egregious as other companies as I can get a factory remote starter installed. It appears that dealers deliberately order vehicles without the remote starter in order to push subscriptions.

With Subaru, you can also buy additional years for cheaper when purchasing the vehicle. I think I could do 10 years (7 additional) for 375. Personal preference now/later but that 375 goes on the loan anyways.

I wish that was an option for me. I bought it "used" with 1100 miles, last year.

That may have been an option, but I wasn't made aware of it. I had to sweet talk the Subaru support to get the free 3 years.

I was also under the impression it had remote start, which it does via the app, but not via the key fob without the remote module installed.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#116

Post by abruzzi »

bilsbie wrote: post #76

I predict in ten years we’ll all be buying and restoring cars from the early 2000s. It will be kind of like Cuba.

I sometimes suspect I'll continue to drive my 20 year old gas powered vehicle until I can't buy gas anymore. Its not that I want a gas vehicle, but that the rise of EVs coincides with a complete re-thinking of the automotive model that I /really/ don't want--subscription services, touch screens, "connected".

As someone that has a very difficult time managing my real life, I've reduced my periodic payments to mortgage, utilities, internet, phone, insurance. No netflix, no streaming music services, no amazon prime. And even then I frequently forget or mis-budget. I really don't want to add 100 monthly fees to do this or that.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#117

Post by adriancr »

sokoloff wrote: post #57
charles_f wrote: post #32

I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…

Is the objection to the turning a one-time payment into a series of monthly payments? Or is the actual objection that the net present value of those monthly payments is too high? If you want to turn something that used to cost me $400 one-time into a subscription that costs me $1.49/mo, I'll be happy that you've offered me the subscription and will buy it in subscription form. Charge $9.99/mo for that same subscripti…

If you buy something you own it, you don't subscribe for physical things. That's the outrage, double dipping from manufacturers.

If I buy a car with heated seats physically there then i own them.

On that note, if someone just enables them without payment i'm curious of the legality. (or selling devices to enable it)

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#118

Post by pards »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #45

One of the features mentioned is a "remote starter" that lets you start the engine from outside the vehicle by pressing a button on the key. I'm not sure why anyone would call this a "basic feature", or indeed why anyone would want it.

Remote start is a basic feature in cold climates like Canada, especially if you have young kids. It's hard enough to wrangle kids into the car, let alone when it's -40°C outside. Remote start allows the interior of the car to warm up beforehand.
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