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Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

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Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#31

Post by csours »

le-mark wrote: post #29
csours wrote: post #8

Get that Monthly Recurring Revenue BAYBEEE. If you have MRR, you're a tech company, not a dirty smelly thing manufacturer, and Wall Street might love you. It's kind of funny that the article says > "But it’s not just BMW: industry watchers and consumer advocates warn that the nickel-and-diming threatens to become standard as automakers chase a recurring revenue model pioneered by Elon Musk’s Tesla." GM launched OnSta…

Whew I thought for a moment “scours” was speaking for the GM board, good to know!

They tell me I need to say that.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#32

Post by charles_f »

I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but MRR right?

But the idea of charging a recurring fee for something that's already in the car? Heated seats? Remote start with a fob? That's blackmail-powered greed. As far as I see it, that's the manufacturer's version of protection racket. If you stop paying them, then they're remotely breaking your car. Just because they planted a mole in it. Just because they can. This is so f-ed up beyond grasp.

The good thing is that they have the right lobbies, so that won't ever be changed by customer protection.

I wasn't surprised that BMW, Tesla or Ford would do something like that. But for whatever stupid reason, Toyota is a disappointment, because I thought they would be part of a few manufacturers not playing that game

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#33

Post by rabidonrails »

harha wrote: post #23
jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

I think they’re also a bit blind towards what potential market they’re losing, even if it’s just step by step. My peer group would probably have been a great target 10 years ago. Now I hardly know anyone at my level with a car, and if, it’s an old one or cheaper brand. I think this is a luxury product in decline, other options just keep getting better. If I like to pay a lot, I’ll just Uber everywhere. Public transpo…

This sounds right for someone that lives in a city and doesn't have kids. If you have a family then the options you laid out above don't work very well and if you live in the suburbs then constant uber/biking/public transport are not long term options.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#34

Post by michaelt »

harha wrote: post #23
jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

I think they’re also a bit blind towards what potential market they’re losing, even if it’s just step by step. My peer group would probably have been a great target 10 years ago. Now I hardly know anyone at my level with a car, and if, it’s an old one or cheaper brand. I think this is a luxury product in decline, other options just keep getting better. If I like to pay a lot, I’ll just Uber everywhere. Public transpo…

Your experience with this will vary hugely with where you are.

If I live in London, then almost everyone I see regularly will be living car-free. If I live in Weasenham in Norfolk, probably far fewer of my friends and neighbours will have a car-free lifestyle.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#35

Post by barrysteve »

We must have kit cars now, like you build your own pc, and have them verified at the MOT/pits/vehicle inspection when you go to give it plates.

The only way to know what goes into your car and truly own it (currently) is to build it from parts.

The EV conversion market is growing too. Making cars electric drastically reduces the complexity for dads-at-home.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#36

Post by sbf501 »

jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

> The only way to stop this is with regulation

This is a controversial point, but a salient one.

If EVERY manufacturer makes a smart TV, then there are no longer dumb TVs. It is collusion of a sort, not a monopoly. One could argue: just don't buy a TV, but there is some weird kind of inertia behind the purchasing of a TV that is immune to that claim. It is not essential to own one, but it shouldn't have to be a surveillance device. I expect the EU to address this long before the USA does, as the latter seems to be struggling with its politics doing even basic things for its people.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#37

Post by AlexandrB »

arielweisberg wrote: post #12

As long as competition remains real I think there will always be a manufacturer or model that gives you close to what you want. Mazda for example has stuck with physical controls and hasn't been making any noises about pushing a bunch of things behind a subscription. There is a subscription for remote start and some useless notifications, but at the moment it's nothing to worry about. I don't think they can afford to…

I hope you're right, but the TV market gives me pause. There's plenty of competition, but all the major brands include advertising and spyware in their TVs.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#38

Post by toomuchtodo »

octoberfranklin wrote: post #28
toomuchtodo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government regulation is still required. Relying on corporate goodwill is a fool’s errand, historically speaking.

Yes but who regulates the regulators? Google "regulatory capture". Democracies have a poor track record of controlling regulators who make subjective decisions. There is a solution though: regulate size . It's objectively measurable. The Mazda example that GP gives is legit, but it's on the knife's edge of disappearing -- one more wave of consolidation and it will be gone. But of course regulating bigness is a very p…

Citizens regulate the regulators.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#39

Post by s1artibartfast »

josephcsible wrote: post #2

> BMW currently requires car owners in some countries to pay roughly $12 per month to access a safety feature called “High Beam Assistant,” which automatically turns off a car’s high beam lights when it senses another car to avoid blinding other drivers at night. > “Safety should come standard,” Wallace said of adaptive headlights. “Some automakers might think that those are simply a convenience feature, but there’s…

I don't think it is a safety feature, it is a convenience feature. Any driver can still turn down the brights and any reasonable one will.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#40

Post by yesUgotit »

jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

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