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Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

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Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#21

Post by anotherman554 »

dlmiller wrote: post #13

I have a 2021 Subaru that can only remote start via the App that requires a subscription to their "STARLINK Safety and Security" service. It comes with 3 free years, however its $99 a year after that. Not as egregious as other companies as I can get a factory remote starter installed. It appears that dealers deliberately order vehicles without the remote starter in order to push subscriptions.

I doubt the dealer cares about subscriptions per see, they would be happy to install a factory remote starter for an additional fee.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#22

Post by nbzso »

jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

Surveillance capitalism, transhumanism, AI government, tech overlords. People have no guts or comprehension to revolt.

We are an easy target for the combination of psychology and technology hacks which is “bestowed” upon us. For some time ahead, there will be a temporary mitigation route.

But in general, we all have fallen to our internal strive for comfort and convenience. Eventually, with high energy prices and scarce resources, we all be renting everything. So you will own nothing.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#23

Post by harha »

jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

I think they’re also a bit blind towards what potential market they’re losing, even if it’s just step by step.

My peer group would probably have been a great target 10 years ago. Now I hardly know anyone at my level with a car, and if, it’s an old one or cheaper brand. I think this is a luxury product in decline, other options just keep getting better. If I like to pay a lot, I’ll just Uber everywhere. Public transport is becoming less shitty (eg with contactless payments in a lot of places, and google maps to find the routes), cycling is safer (and showers in offices) etc. Why deal with this nonsense, and insurance and fines and parking and repairs?

I think they’re looking at these revenue streams as a way to save themselves because it might increase revenue per customer, without seeing that it might actually reduce their market share even further.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#24

Post by JKCalhoun »

jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

Perhaps there will spring a cottage industry around enabling these features without a subscription.

I'm sure the lawsuits will flow — but bad look, no? Shades of McDonald's shake machine....

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#25

Post by neogodless »

_fat_santa wrote: post #10

> General Motors has told investors it aims to generate up to $25 billion in software and services subscription revenue annually by 2030 — up from an estimated $2 billion in 2021. Stellantis, formerly known as Fiat Chrysler, is shooting for $23 billion by 2030. If they made $2B and are shooting for $25B, this practice will only escalate.

GM is definitely escalating. They are requiring the "optional" OnStar on all models of some of their brands, and some models of other brands. $1500 up front, covering a 3 year subscription. Not part of "MSRP" but it's not optional either.

Now OnStar isn't a necessary set of features. And it certainly should remain optional. But if demand is high enough, consumers will buy from them anyway and they'll continue to escalate as much as they can.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#26

Post by chris72205 »

All of these aren't quite the same though. Charging to use hardware that is already present in a vehicle and contained to that vehicle (heated seats) is not the same as charging to use an app that requires a network of hardware behind the scenes to start a vehicle remotely.

The latter has continuing costs and it's foolish to believe that would be free forever. Should you be _forced_ to pay this? No. But that's a different problem.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#27

Post by h2odragon »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #24
jacooper wrote: post #4

The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…

Perhaps there will spring a cottage industry around enabling these features without a subscription. I'm sure the lawsuits will flow — but bad look, no? Shades of McDonald's shake machine....

Recall the "satellite TV hacking" market? Note what happened to that when the satellite TV operators stopped fighting with each other.

Of course the Auto industry hasn't got the clout to make states serve them the way the Entertainment industry does, yet.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#28

Post by octoberfranklin »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #14
arielweisberg wrote: post #12

As long as competition remains real I think there will always be a manufacturer or model that gives you close to what you want. Mazda for example has stuck with physical controls and hasn't been making any noises about pushing a bunch of things behind a subscription. There is a subscription for remote start and some useless notifications, but at the moment it's nothing to worry about. I don't think they can afford to…

Government regulation is still required. Relying on corporate goodwill is a fool’s errand, historically speaking.

Yes but who regulates the regulators? Google "regulatory capture". Democracies have a poor track record of controlling regulators who make subjective decisions.

There is a solution though: regulate size. It's objectively measurable. The Mazda example that GP gives is legit, but it's on the knife's edge of disappearing -- one more wave of consolidation and it will be gone. But of course regulating bigness is a very pre-2007 solution. In the modern world it's all about ever-increasing bigness. Because everybody loves zombie megacorps living off of an IV drip of cheap debt.

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#29

Post by le-mark »

csours wrote: post #8

Get that Monthly Recurring Revenue BAYBEEE. If you have MRR, you're a tech company, not a dirty smelly thing manufacturer, and Wall Street might love you. It's kind of funny that the article says > "But it’s not just BMW: industry watchers and consumer advocates warn that the nickel-and-diming threatens to become standard as automakers chase a recurring revenue model pioneered by Elon Musk’s Tesla." GM launched OnSta…

Whew I thought for a moment “scours” was speaking for the GM board, good to know!

Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features

#30

Post by [deleted] »

dlmiller wrote: post #13

I have a 2021 Subaru that can only remote start via the App that requires a subscription to their "STARLINK Safety and Security" service. It comes with 3 free years, however its $99 a year after that. Not as egregious as other companies as I can get a factory remote starter installed. It appears that dealers deliberately order vehicles without the remote starter in order to push subscriptions.

[deleted]
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