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Things people blamed on bicycles

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Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#381

Post by ehnto »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #180
jimmytidey wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pattern: -- A car squeezes past you at high speed -- Less than 30 seconds later I pull in front of it as we both stop at a red light. In fact, a car coming too close and knocking you off your bike is not a common cause of injury. It certainly makes cycling unpleasant though. 40% of non-cyclists in London say the danger of cycling is a significant factor in their decision not to cycle.

> car squeezes past you at high speed many cyclist don't understand this because they are bad drivers the point of passing a bike on the road is to avoid the danger you as a driver pose for the bike in the case of an unexpected event. like if the biker falls. clearing up the way as fast as possible is safer for both. Doesn't matter who's faster in the end, if that was the purpose, it would suffice for drivers to not…

If you wanted to keep cyclists safe, you would just stay behind them at a safe distance until a safe passing moment appears, just like you must do for cars. It sounds to me like you aren't keeping a safe distance and you are percieving the risk you are putting on others. At a safe distance, the problem you describe is not an issue.

When I am near cyclist or motorbikes there is a lot of ways I can not put them in danger, but the biggest ones are being attentive and keeping safe distances when folllwing or passing. This gives everyone space and time to react to any issues. Simple stuff.

Cyclists are doing the best with an infrastructure built in favour of cars, if they could be riding on a separated bike path out of your way they would definitely prefer that.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#382

Post by vanilla_nut »

mrweasel wrote: post #162
eptcyka wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Because that's where the cars go? You see, there is a system. Starting from the right: pedestrians, bikes and lastly cars. We never deviate from that system, that way everyone always know where everything is. Sometimes there's a bike lane, but that still goes between the pedestrians and the cars. Also, if everything else fail, and this is what kids in Denmark is taught. If you're ever in doubt if the drivers have see…

Conversely, it makes sense that a country with chronic bike infrastructure baked into the legal system would assume bikes use that infrastructure. If there is a safe, protected bike lane, I’m happy to use it.

In other countries, bike infrastructure is sparse, poorly designed, and frequently dangerous. Bicyclists must drive defensively to stay alive. Sometimes this means taking the full lane because staying to the side puts you in danger of dooring or makes you vulnerable to aggressive drivers who will squeeze by without adequate space.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#383

Post by habi »

wkjagt wrote: post #304
DoubleFree wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of dangerous interactions between drivers and cyclists is much smaller here in the Netherlands, mainly due to two reasons. The first reason is the infrastructure, both visible and invisible. Separated bicycle lanes are commonplace and in the few places where they intersect with car traffic, care is taken to make crossing safe and comfortable. This visible infrastructure is complemented by the concept of "…

Another reason is that being really respectful around cyclists is an important part of driving lessons in The Netherlands. And I think you can fail your driving test if you pass a bike too close, open your door without looking if a cyclists is coming from behind, or passing over a bike lane at an intersection without looking. I am from The Netherlands and I only realized since moving to Canada that my home country is…

> open your door without looking if a cyclists is coming from behind,

Once you learn about the https://www.dutchreach.org it's hard to forget it. It helps to avoid the not-looking-for-cyclists problem :)

(It might even have been here on HN where I learned about it.)

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#384

Post by stinos »

LtWorf wrote: post #330
stinos wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think it is less dangerous to pedestrians. I remember when I used to live in the Netherlands, it was uncomfortable being a pedestrian because there were so many cyclists. Actual statistics about encounters clearly do show it is less dangerous, and expecting a concussion to be a false interpretion of actual risks. I do get your problem though: you're not used to it. You need eyes everywhere which essentially…

Bah, in my experience bicycle users behave really badly on average. Certainly no better than car drivers. For example they will be ready to crash on a pedestrian who is walking on a bike lane for good reason (most common ones are: an excavator made a trench on the sidewalk, the snow clearing machine took all the snow from the road and made a mountain on the sidewalk). However when there is no bike lane available, the…

I never said anything about behavior, only about accidents and the results thereof. I'd really really rather get hit by a cyclist at any speed than a much heavier vehicle, that's just basic physics. And your examples are just that: examples (possibly exaggerated or factually incorrect ones, re: the 50km/h on sidewalk - it's really hard for humans to correctly judge speed). Anyway: examples which I also see from time to time, but I'm well aware of things like confirmation bias so without any actual hard numbers nor specifying more variables, it's quite hard to say 'x does y on average'.

That being said, I do have the impression in the local town (but definitely not everywhere) the behavior of cyclists in general became worse in the last decades. I'd really wish I had a way to make sure, but I just don't remember seeing multiple highest category rule violations every single day.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#385

Post by tomn »

newaccount74 wrote: post #226
pojzon wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Have you ever tried riding a bicycle in the city? Bicycle lanes in many cities are close to unusable. For example: - they are right next to parked cars and you can't ride on them without constant fear of getting doored - they abruptly stop and there is no obvious place where to continue riding - cars park on the bicycle lanes - bicycle lanes go right next to crowded bus stops and there are so many people that it's im…

some more reasons from a UK perspective:

- if you want to turn across the road, you have to merge onto the road which can be dangerous and awkward, so it's better to be on the road for longer before you want to turn than you might expect.

- cycle lanes are often too narrow (if just painted onto an existing road), so push you closer to the curb than is really safe. i often feel like the best position would be on the edge of the cycle lane, but then cars will not overtake properly

- ungraded cycle lanes tend to fill up with the dirt and detritus that's flung off the road by vehicles if they're not cleaned regularly enough (this is especially a problem if there are bollards or other street furniture that is supposed to separate the bike lane from the road, as it makes them harder to clean)

- cars are more likely to cut you off when turning across a cycle lane, than if they are forced to overtake properly

most cyclists I've talked to here think the kind of cycle lanes we have are worse than useless

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#386

Post by throw0101a »

cypress66 wrote: post #364
corney91 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But driving could be even worse, due to the cars collecting pollution: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/13/cyclists... In fact, the second link for me in that Google search mentions this study, as well as others suggesting the physical and mental benefits of cycling outweigh the pollution you breath in: https://www.standard.co.uk/optimist/theairwebreathe/cycling-...

But unless you have your window open, cars AC have hepa filters.

Filters are only useful if the air moves through them:

> Our study also found that there are simple changes that could reduce exposure to emissions for professional drivers, such as keeping windows closed when driving, or changing routes to avoid tunnels. Having an air-tight vehicle cabin can also play an important part in reducing driver exposure. Technological fixes such as specialised in-vehicle cabin pollution filters may also be a short-term solution to reduce exposure for professional drivers.

* https://airqualitynews.com/2019/10/07/drivers-are-exposed-to...

How many vehicles are air tight?

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#387

Post by bnralt »

dimva wrote: post #282
Stratoscope wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I was at the four way stop in the parking lot next to the corner of the Costco building in Mountain View, after coming down the driveway from Rengstorff. As usual, many people were crossing the far side of that intersection as they left Costco, and of course I waited for them. After I'd been there 30 seconds or so, a big SUV pulled up to the stop sign on my left. He was wanting to make a left turn toward To…

For some reason, driving a car causes a strong desire to move forward quickly in most people. Even for me, a person who hasn't owned a car in over a decade and always bikes or walks everywhere, whenever I get behind the wheel of a car, I get incredibly anxious when I'm stopped waiting for something, and I have to consciously tell myself it's OK if I wait for 30 seconds. I have no idea what causes this, but I've notic…

It seems like people get irrationally anxious and angry having to wait behind people moving slower in general. On paths that cyclists share with pedestrians, cyclists are usually even more angry and aggressive with pedestrians than drivers are with cyclists (pedestrians are expected to move out of the way and often get yelled at if they don't). There seems to be this almost atavistic response people have to something in front of them impeding there movement.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#388

Post by InCityDreams »

DoubleFree wrote: post #194
montebicyclelo wrote: post #114

Cycling is cheap, often faster than driving (in my city), healthy, less noisy, creates vastly less pollution, less dangerous to pedastrians... And I'd guess that about 95% of drivers that I come across are respectful of the danger they present - overtaking with enough space, and not at too high a speed (my city doesn't have great bike lanes). Unfortunately, a typical journey involves passing more than 20 cars, which…

The problem of dangerous interactions between drivers and cyclists is much smaller here in the Netherlands, mainly due to two reasons. The first reason is the infrastructure, both visible and invisible. Separated bicycle lanes are commonplace and in the few places where they intersect with car traffic, care is taken to make crossing safe and comfortable. This visible infrastructure is complemented by the concept of "…

>cyclists are equal participants in traffic and are treated with care and respect.

...and you're absolutely royally fucked if you hit one, plays a part.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#389

Post by eloisant »

markus_zhang wrote: post #307

There are so much love for bicycles. I'll offer something from the other side that people who drive. What I really find it scary is that cyclists often take the road as they wish and then block dozens of vehicles, or do something else that might seem to be quite normal from their perspective, but nevertheless is dangerous from drivers' perspective (e.g. suddenly get into road from sidewalk, are you going to cross or…

The road isn't reserved for cars either, despite what you might think when you see a cyclist "blocking dozens of vehicles" when he's just using the road.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#390

Post by catonmylap »

donkeyd wrote: post #229
catonmylap wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when you once lived in a city in The Netherlands you never want to go back into any other country, where are cars are used as main transportation inside cities. Everybody cycles here and it feels very safe to do it, however the infrastructure is the most important part. Cars are second class citizens most of the time and people driving them know this.

> Cars are second class citizens most of the time and people driving them know this. As someone who's never been able to afford living in a Dutch city, but has worked there, this is very true. Driving through Amsterdam is like driving through a mine field. Cyclists seemingly pop up out of nowhere and always take the right of way. This has become such a custom in the Netherlands that (at least in Amsterdam) cyclists e…

It's true, there are electric bikes that are fast. However I never feel unsafe because of them. For me the bigger annoyance are the scooters which are also allowed on the bicycle lane (in my City, afaik not Amsterdam). Those are mostly faster than the allowed 27mk/h and ride very aggressive.
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