Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark • Hacker News Board

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#101

Post by sjwright » Sun, Nov 20, 2011, 2:54 AM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #85

sjwright wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because there has not been a disruptive change in USD banknotes for a very long time. And it's desperately needed -- their cotton paper notes are just crap. The Australian switch to polymer meant an entirely new suite of banknotes which bear almost no resemblance to the paper ones they replaced.

At this point there's a decent installed base of automated bill-reading machinery, though. Not that these ought to be sacrosanct or anything, but the cost and inconveniences associated with a rollout of new bills is substantial. Plus, people will complain about the new ones. :)

People will complain about anything. Americans have very odd sentimentality towards their notes and coins, as if history itself will be rewritten when a change is made in the present.

The classic example is the penny. Get rid of it! You can still collect them and read about them on wikipedia, you just won't have to deal with them while buying your double cheeseburgers any more.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#102

Post by Natsu » Sun, Nov 20, 2011, 9:28 AM UTC

buff-a wrote: post #76

hugh3 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, this kind of conspiracy theory "fuck the pigs man" stuff doesn't belong here. Reddit is that-a-way.

Because conspiracy theories are never true? Or just this "kind" of conspiracy theory? You object to the idea that a democracy can't turn into a place where the government is dangerous to its citizens? Have you heard about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution ?

The fact that the system can fail us, while depressing, is neither a conspiracy nor anything as bad as the Nazis managed.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#103

Post by buff-a » Sun, Nov 20, 2011, 9:58 AM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #102

buff-a wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because conspiracy theories are never true? Or just this "kind" of conspiracy theory? You object to the idea that a democracy can't turn into a place where the government is dangerous to its citizens? Have you heard about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution ?

The fact that the system can fail us, while depressing, is neither a conspiracy nor anything as bad as the Nazis managed.

With all the myriad of documented ways that rich people have worked with other rich people to fuck us all over, I'm amazed that anyone can write that there is no conspiracy. The revolving door between government and industry, between regulators and the regulated, the money channeled to the police. You need to do some more research.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#104

Post by sliverstorm » Mon, Nov 21, 2011, 9:47 AM UTC

kijin wrote: post #49

sliverstorm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would anyone bother forging Canadian currency? Just ribbing on ya :p It is true, there are other preventative measures, but any one measure can be beaten. It's like computer security- any computer can be hacked, it's just a game of making it hard enough to hack that it is not worth it, or takes too long.

Sure, any anti-counterfeit measure can be beaten, but it is certainly possible to design banknotes in such a way that consumer-grade printers can't produce anything remotely resembling a real banknote. Then there will be no excuse for spying on citizens' everyday printing activities. The fact that this alternative is not even on the table adds to the impression that the U.S. government, as usual, is trying to use Big…

I really doubt the government is regularly spying on your printing. The whole thing really seems like a very small issue to me. It just gives printers a "fingerprint" that can be referenced if needed.

I suppose if "fingerprints" are so bad, we should probably outlaw ballistic analysis linking a bullet to the gun that fired it?

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#105

Post by DanBC » Mon, Nov 21, 2011, 9:57 AM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #104

kijin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, any anti-counterfeit measure can be beaten, but it is certainly possible to design banknotes in such a way that consumer-grade printers can't produce anything remotely resembling a real banknote. Then there will be no excuse for spying on citizens' everyday printing activities. The fact that this alternative is not even on the table adds to the impression that the U.S. government, as usual, is trying to use Big…

I really doubt the government is regularly spying on your printing. The whole thing really seems like a very small issue to me. It just gives printers a "fingerprint" that can be referenced if needed. I suppose if "fingerprints" are so bad, we should probably outlaw ballistic analysis linking a bullet to the gun that fired it?

> I really doubt the government is regularly spying on your printing.

For some values of "the government" not including many governments; see $OPPRESSIVE_REGIME.

There's a lot of stuff "the government" does now that would have been unthinkable before various terrorist bombing attempts. Really, forcing everyone to remove their shoes before boarding a plane?

And, if you doubt that the US[1] spies on its own citizens you should have a look at the Echelon programme, where a legal loophole was used by the US to gather intelligence on its citizens. (The US gov can't do it legally, so they pass a name onto another gov involved in Echelon.)

[1] US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#106

Post by jasonlotito » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 3:58 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #48

jasonlotito wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation needed. You're being purposefully obtuse. I'm sorry everyone doesn't agree with you. Your opinion isn't the only one. Your teenage angst driven post is sad, if only because you really believe what you are spewing. > I reject this. Big words for someone who clearly doesn't. Really, if you're being honest here in this post, I can't help but think your a bigger fraud then the people who supposedly shun.

Well, I can't really respond to personal attacks with anything other than 'NUH-UH!'. We're just coming from radically different assumptions. I've been there, thinking my vote mattered, thinking that conservatives just needed some enlightenment (if you prefer the converse - thinking that progressives just need some experience with the real world). Thinking that change happens eventually once enough people wake up and…

> I've been there, thinking my vote mattered...

I wasn't referring to merely voting. I was referring to actually getting into politics and enacting change from the inside. If you just vote, you aren't enacting any change. You're signaling your belief that others are better able to handle this then you.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#107

Post by mindslight » Sat, Dec 03, 2011, 6:48 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #106

mindslight wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can't really respond to personal attacks with anything other than 'NUH-UH!'. We're just coming from radically different assumptions. I've been there, thinking my vote mattered, thinking that conservatives just needed some enlightenment (if you prefer the converse - thinking that progressives just need some experience with the real world). Thinking that change happens eventually once enough people wake up and…

> I've been there, thinking my vote mattered... I wasn't referring to merely voting. I was referring to actually getting into politics and enacting change from the inside. If you just vote, you aren't enacting any change. You're signaling your belief that others are better able to handle this then you.

Then add 'thinking my friend getting into local politics would start changing things from the inside' to that list (yes, also factual with that time of my life). The point being, it's a state of thinking that we just need to democracy harder to fix the problems.

To accurately evaluate systems, one has to step back and look at their actual (emergent) behavior, not just their purported (axiomatic) behavior.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#108

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 03, 2011, 6:49 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #106

mindslight wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can't really respond to personal attacks with anything other than 'NUH-UH!'. We're just coming from radically different assumptions. I've been there, thinking my vote mattered, thinking that conservatives just needed some enlightenment (if you prefer the converse - thinking that progressives just need some experience with the real world). Thinking that change happens eventually once enough people wake up and…

> I've been there, thinking my vote mattered... I wasn't referring to merely voting. I was referring to actually getting into politics and enacting change from the inside. If you just vote, you aren't enacting any change. You're signaling your belief that others are better able to handle this then you.

[deleted]

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#109

Post by mindslight » Sat, Dec 03, 2011, 6:53 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #106

mindslight wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can't really respond to personal attacks with anything other than 'NUH-UH!'. We're just coming from radically different assumptions. I've been there, thinking my vote mattered, thinking that conservatives just needed some enlightenment (if you prefer the converse - thinking that progressives just need some experience with the real world). Thinking that change happens eventually once enough people wake up and…

> I've been there, thinking my vote mattered... I wasn't referring to merely voting. I was referring to actually getting into politics and enacting change from the inside. If you just vote, you aren't enacting any change. You're signaling your belief that others are better able to handle this then you.

Then add 'thinking my friend getting into local politics would start changing things from the inside' to that list (yes, also factual with that time of my life). The point being, it's a state of thinking that we just need to democracy harder to fix the problems.

To accurately evaluate systems, one has to step back and look at their actual (emergent) behavior, not just their purported (axiomatic) behavior.