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Things people blamed on bicycles

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Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#141

Post by desas »

aikinai wrote: post #127
bipson wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people, those around me included, seem to not grasp that for safe overtake of a bicycle you still require a second lane (at least partially) besides your own. But in traffic and the laws lane usage is binary. There is no such thing as half lanes, you cannot use the second lane "a little". You either need it, or you don't. So overtaking a bicycle, a motorbike, a pedestrian on the road or a tractor, etc. it is…

This is some seriously counterproductive absolutism, and I cycle everyday and don't own a car.

It's literally the guidance that every police force in the UK work to, you need to leave a space of 1.5 metres between your car and the cyclist when overtaking at 30mph. It might be that our road lanes are narrower than yours of course.

See https://www.northants.police.uk/police-forces/northamptonshi...

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#142

Post by jimmytidey »

montebicyclelo wrote: post #114

Cycling is cheap, often faster than driving (in my city), healthy, less noisy, creates vastly less pollution, less dangerous to pedastrians... And I'd guess that about 95% of drivers that I come across are respectful of the danger they present - overtaking with enough space, and not at too high a speed (my city doesn't have great bike lanes). Unfortunately, a typical journey involves passing more than 20 cars, which…

The pattern:

-- A car squeezes past you at high speed -- Less than 30 seconds later I pull in front of it as we both stop at a red light.

In fact, a car coming too close and knocking you off your bike is not a common cause of injury. It certainly makes cycling unpleasant though.

40% of non-cyclists in London say the danger of cycling is a significant factor in their decision not to cycle.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#143

Post by Symbiote »

aikinai wrote: post #127
bipson wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people, those around me included, seem to not grasp that for safe overtake of a bicycle you still require a second lane (at least partially) besides your own. But in traffic and the laws lane usage is binary. There is no such thing as half lanes, you cannot use the second lane "a little". You either need it, or you don't. So overtaking a bicycle, a motorbike, a pedestrian on the road or a tractor, etc. it is…

This is some seriously counterproductive absolutism, and I cycle everyday and don't own a car.

It's the law in Britain: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-43146515

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#144

Post by CaptainMarvel »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #53
fzfaa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When driving, cyclists are dangerous for themselves and for others. When walking, cyclists have absolutely no regard for my physical safety. When I lived in a city with a lot of cyclists I ended up developing some kind of fear that made me look around all the time because of how many cyclists had almost killed me when I was peacefully walking along the pavement. Oh god how I hate cyclists.

I love cycling and bicycles, but I have to say you have a point in your second statement. Back in the days when I used to live in Helsinki, streets became much more dangerous after cycling became popular and city built dedicated cycling lanes. Suddenly all the hipsters with their 5000 USD handmake Swiss custom bikes are out there to kill the pedestrians. Outside of some developing countries I've never felt threatened…

It sounds so hard to believe that streets became “much more dangerous” with “cyclists out there to kill pedestrians” that I looked for sources on the matter.

First result [0] says there were zero pedestrian or cyclist fatalities in 2019, with ping-term trend being increasing safety.

Another result [1] on how it was achieved: “cut speed limits, changed street design, removed space for cars and generally made life harder for motorists”.

Huh… sounds like cars are doing the killing…

[0]: https://news.cision.com/city-of-helsinki/r/zero-pedestrian-a...

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/how-helsinki-a...

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#145

Post by [deleted] »

eptcyka wrote: post #129
ajuc wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't. Do you drive? Cause if so - you're a threat to other people... When a pedestrian crosses a street - cars and bikes have to stop for example. When a bike and a car meet on an intersection of equal roads with no lights or signs - whoever is on the left has to yield, no matter what their speed is. When signs or lights show who has to yield - it also doesn't matter if you drive a car/bike or walk. I can't…

Pedestrians are not vehichles. I am specifically referring to a situation where there's traffic going one way on a road and slower vehicles are impeding on traffic behind them - in this case it's the responsibility of the slower vehicle to let the faster traffic pass in a safe manner. Seems like I've worded myself poorly here given that people are clearly misunderstanding me. Yes, at intersections, as a driver, I wil…

[deleted]

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#146

Post by atoav »

sschueller wrote: post #109
ChrisRR wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK as a cyclist I still get so much hate on the road. I'm just trying to get to work like everyone else, but people still drive their cars up right behind me, squeeze past when there's not enough space, beep their horns and shout out the window. And then the justification is always "well I saw a cyclist run a red light once, therefore all cyclists are shit"

Well cyclist running red lights is extremely common here in Zürich Switzerland especially during morning rush hour. I have seen some crazy altercations between not cars and cyclist but public transport like trams and cyclist. Once a cyclist managed to pull up to the front of a double bendy trollybus[1] I was in just to cut across the front of the bus forcing the driver to hard break. In another incident recently whic…

As a cyclist who never runs red lights and always tries to communicate clearly where I am going next, there are many cyclists who don't know how to behave in traffic. Yet for every cyclist that behaves like that I will wittness a motorist who is equally wreckless. The only difference being, when the cyclist hits me, I might be hurt, when the motorist hits me I might be dead.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#147

Post by ygra »

piokoch wrote: post #99
mnd999 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot more hate for bicycles since I stopped driving and started walking as it turns out.

That's my impression to. Bikers apparently think that those funny white stripes on the roads and bike roads are some kind of decoration, not passage for pedestrian. Many bikers think that they have priority there...

IME every mode of transport has people who consider themselves to be more important than any rules that govern them. Pedestrians walking on cycleways and getting angry at getting belled at. Cyclists ignoring red lights or cycling on sidewalks. Motorists driving/parking on sidewalks and cycleways or not yielding to pedestrians when exiting a roundabout. Basically anything that inconveniences certain people seems to be grounds to inconvenience others or at least not care about them. This doesn't seem to be restricted to certain modes of transport, although the faster the mode can be, the more dangerous the clashes become. I guess it's then more about the mindset of people than their way of getting around.

That being said, when I was in driving school way later than most people who got their driver's license, I suddenly noticed a few things as a cyclist: People in cars don't see anything from inside in comparison. So some things cyclists do end up endangering them needlessly because they may lack awareness about the problems drivers may have reacting to that behavior. This probably cuts both ways and we'd all be safer if there are more cyclists on the streets so drivers get accustomed to looking out for them and there are perhaps fewer instances where anyone, cyclist or driver, would be compelled to resort to something dangerous just out of inconvenience. But at least for me I basically changed my cycling behavior to act like a car. And when in a car I at least know how cyclists feel in certain situations and can avoid them. Leaving space, not overtaking where you can't, anticipating somewhat erratic behavior (cyclists can't always give hand signals when turning, for example). And honestly, it's not a big deal or an inconvenience. But then again, it's also how to behave on the road in general according to the laws (first paragraph of the German highway code is literally to exhibit caution looking out for each other, and that goes for everyone in theory).

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#148

Post by aikinai »

belorn wrote: post #84
nopehnnope wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really need it explained to you how a bike is more dangerous to pedestrians than a runner? A bike has way more inertia, is harder to stop than someone running, and is a tangle of metal that can seriously injure someone, and more difficult to safely maneuver around short of standing the side and stopping to let them pass. Takes half a second of thought to realize all this but you chose to play incredulous inste…

This is how people rationalize, but there is one problem with it. When it no longer convenient to see bikes as dangerous then people instantly stop doing it, as accident data actually show extremely few cases of bikes causing injury to pedestrians outside of intersections. This is shown directly by city planners. When construction closes down bike lines or walkways, which ever remains get temporarily converted to be…

Your point is backed up by the custom in Japan. Most cyclists stick to the sidewalk and there are of course some accidents, but it's nothing to be particularly concerned about and it works fine even with incredibly high cycling rates.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#149

Post by watwut »

zizee wrote: post #80
watwut wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Outside of some developing countries I've never felt threatened by cars, but I've been just less than a second away from death or permanent disability because of bicycles in Helsinki, Berlin, Tel Aviv etc. One seriously distinct American thing is to claim deadly dangers in extraordinary safe situations and places.

Being hit by a cyclist is no laughing matter, especially if you are a child or elderly. That said, cyclist/pedestrian accidents account for relatively few deaths and injuries compared to other forms of transport.

> That said, cyclist/pedestrian accidents account for relatively few deaths and injuries compared to other forms of transport.

Yes. They are both less frequent and the consequences are less grave. Even among people who survive them, the injuries are less serious then injuries of car accidents.

Also, more specifically, Berlin and Helsinki are not unsafe with their use of bicycles. There is no army of permanently disabled people due to use of either in those cities. Whatever is the root of hate toward cyclists, the actual safety is not it. For that matter, people who use bikes for transport rarely use super expensive bikes. That part of the comment does not work either.

Re: Things people blamed on bicycles

#150

Post by Elte »

EntropyIsAHoax wrote: post #108
fzfaa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When driving, cyclists are dangerous for themselves and for others. When walking, cyclists have absolutely no regard for my physical safety. When I lived in a city with a lot of cyclists I ended up developing some kind of fear that made me look around all the time because of how many cyclists had almost killed me when I was peacefully walking along the pavement. Oh god how I hate cyclists.

In Germany I see this as basically an infrastructure problem. Most of the bike lanes are just a painted red strip on the sidewalk. This is dangerous because it puts cyclists so close to pedestrians--who often move unpredictably into the bike lane--and it's easy as a pedestrian to accidentally wander into the bike lane. Especially at night when the red is hard to see (they should have chosen a brighter color like neon…

Absolutely, bike lanes in Germany are an afterthought _at best_. I see bike lanes here springing into existence randomly with no way to get on (you're on the street with the cars, and suddenly you see a bike lane on the other side) and, similarly, ending with no reasonable way to continue (just hop off the sidewalk here please!). In my neigborhood, "red" means bike lane 50% of the time and sidewalk the other 50%. There is literally a sidewalk close by where the lane colors switch half way through. They're also often poorly paved with big bumps to get on and off at intersections.

Being born and raised in the Netherlands, this was a bit of a nasty surprise when I moved here. I really think you can cut down car use significantly by improving the infrastructure. The distances and landscape lend themselves well to biking, but the roads do not.

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