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Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

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Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I said.

The game in socialism is also making a lot of money.

Problem: Politicians are corrupt!

Solution: Give more power to politicians! Lack of power corrupts, need to give them more until they stop being corrupt!

Not sure why anyone thinks that would work.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#202

The thread reminds me of the Guardian's podcast "Sewage Sleuths" which uncovered catastrophic sewage being dumped into England and Wales's rivers and streams. Very informative and enlightening how bad some government infrastructure can be (hint: in the podcast they also enlightened HOW the failure got bad). https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2022/aug/15/sewage-sl...

It's worth clarifying that the issue with the government infrastructure is with the regulatory agencies, rather than the water infrastructure itself which is privatised.

There's also a good text article version; https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/04/sewage-s...

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#203

This isn't a collapse of emergency healthcare, it's a very predicted collapse of community social care: hospitals can't discharge if they need a care home place that doesn't exist. Without inpatient bed availability, ERs and AMUs can't admit to specialties and everything gums up at the front door. Let's be clear: we do need many more doctors and nurses, but the existing ones can't do their jobs because their wards ha…

It is too bad that corrupt government officials keep systemically defunding Social Health programs with the objective of pushing private for-profit healthcare (which just doesn't make sense). Then they point to the deficient healthcare and blame the "socialized" aspect of it for the issues. Here in Mexico we've seen it all play out: We had an amazing social healthcare system (in the form of the IMSS) in the 70s and 8…

> Back in 2004 when I lived in the UK, the NHS was really good. And I remember hearing at that time that it was nothing compared to the NHS in the 80s and 90s.

In a lot of respects, this isn't very accurate. It got pretty bad in the early '90s, anything that needed to go beyond the GP had really bad wait times, people stuck on trolleys in A&E, etc. By 2004 it was much better, so that anything which required a hospital visit would be dealt with much more quickly and effectively but the GPs were coming under more pressure from a growing and aging population so the first point of contact had a less personal touch.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#204
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the US I had stage III cancer. I was receiving full blown cancer treatment(s) less than a week after I went to the ER with symptoms (chest port + three types of chemo drugs). And that's routine. The US health care failures are mostly the fault of administrators and insurance companies gaming the public. The care is fast + extensive and it's not a cesspool. And the "full hospital" meme isn't entirely accurate.…

It's laughable to call the US healthcare system bad, but I feel like that sort of treatment should be commonplace and universal for what we pay here. The UK has spent about 10 percent of GDP over the last ten years. The US spends 20 percent. It's going somewhere, but I don't think it's going towards care at quite the same rate as over healthcare systems. Even 15 percent of US GDP would be $3 trillion, or more than th…

> Even 15 percent of US GDP would be $3 trillion, or more than the entirety of UK total GDP.

It's almost like the two countries might not be meaningfully comparable.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#205
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the people triaged into 8-12 hour queues have a 16% higher chance of dying in the next month, that's a pretty obvious indication that many of them are, in fact, in critical condition.

I wouldn't trust a stat like that without digging into the underlying causation. The whole twitter presentation is a nice narrative but I see many places where it could just be outright wrong, or saying misleading things (I work in medical biology and have plenty of familiarity with how hospitals run their ERs).

I agree that this sort of thing needs a study.

Fortunately the previous tweet linked to the original source, a published study of 5 million ER visits which appears to have a full set of controls and specifically measures time to inpatient transfer in excess of 5 hours as a mortality risk factor https://emj.bmj.com/content/emermed/39/3/168.full.pdf

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game in socialism is also making a lot of money.

Problem: Politicians are corrupt! Solution: Give more power to politicians! Lack of power corrupts, need to give them more until they stop being corrupt! Not sure why anyone thinks that would work.

Because politicians are accountable to voters and unless the monopolies are nationalized the monopolies are accountable to no one.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#208

But what has caused the collapse of emergency healthcare in the UK? A lack of supply or an increase in demand?

There's a big problem where social care got moved from the department of health to local government a few years ago.

Then, shortly after, the government cut local government funding massively. It used to be funded by a mix of local taxes and funding from central government that was about 50/50. This was part of a strategy to insulate richer areas from the impact of cuts, while poorer ones (which relied more on central funding) took the hit.

This means there's a huge problem with elderly patients who need to be discharged into social care not having the support they would need to go home or a spot in an old people's home to go into.

Which, combined with covid still being around and the fact that even before covid government obsession with efficiency meant that there were a relatively low number of beds which already had a high occupancy rate.

So there was no spare supply to begin with, increasing demand due to a growing and aging population and covid, and lots of people who are stuck in hospital because they need support to leave which doesn't exist.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#209
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the US I had stage III cancer. I was receiving full blown cancer treatment(s) less than a week after I went to the ER with symptoms (chest port + three types of chemo drugs). And that's routine. The US health care failures are mostly the fault of administrators and insurance companies gaming the public. The care is fast + extensive and it's not a cesspool. And the "full hospital" meme isn't entirely accurate.…

It's laughable to call the US healthcare system bad, but I feel like that sort of treatment should be commonplace and universal for what we pay here. The UK has spent about 10 percent of GDP over the last ten years. The US spends 20 percent. It's going somewhere, but I don't think it's going towards care at quite the same rate as over healthcare systems. Even 15 percent of US GDP would be $3 trillion, or more than th…

Its 16.77% of GDP for the US currently. Germany is at 11.70%. I think Germany is probably the most reasonably run health care system to compare against since Germany doesn't have the collapse of healthcare issues of UK or Canada we keep hearing about.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?most_...

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#210
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increase in demand - much of which is attributed (by the NHS itself) for people having poor life-styles (meaning tending to obesity [0] and not maintaining physical and mental fitness), and the tendency for people to be kept alive longer existing with chronic conditions that a few decades ago would have naturally expired (dead!). There's been an endemic problem for the last 30+ years where-by a large proportion of th…

Meanwhile in the US there’s been a push to limit the copays for insulin, pushing the cost of all of those almost entirely preventable type 2 diabetics on to everyone else.

This would only be a problem due to how incredibly, absurdly expensive insulin is in the USA.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47491964

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