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Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

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Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#51
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm... Android is Linux.

Just the kernel is Linux, but with the "Linux" that is meant here, it has basically nothing in common, be it e.g. in the userland or "the spirit". The Linux from "Linux Smartphones" e.g. fosters an open, user-first ecosystem, as opposed to the often very closed and locked Android Smartphones. Another examples are e.g. Safetynet or the Google Play Integrity API. Those primarily don't server the users. Or apps that eit…

> We have admin/root on normal PCs and nobody is complaining there.

That's true.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of a Linux phone, I really want something that supports a full GNU/Linux desktop as convergence. The Steam Deck does this perfectly!

Damn, you got me thinking now, that Valve of all people could probably put out a Linux phone. The Steam Phone could be a game changer.

You may actually be onto something here!

Especially if the smaller steam deck clones like Aya neo Air Pro ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw-0ngNgGC0 ) can support voice calls and a decent camera (the only other things my "mobile gamer" friends care about in a phone), I think there will be a niche market around it. Nokia N-Gage reborn!

We already have decent enough android apps support on linux using anbox / waydroid. For the edge case android apps.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#53
post #25

It's mentioned already, but: Android. Discounting Android as "Not Linux" enough is a mind boggle to me. Perhaps not "GNU" enough, but certainly the spirit of Linux -- customized for the particular needs, stable, fast, works on a plethora of hardware, etc.

Android is Linux but it has nowhere close to the fully open source freedom of a traditional Linux workstation. This is why I carry a tiny linux laptop.

What do you use a small laptop? Seems there's nothing ultralight and small like the Asus Eee and Acer Aspire One these days (even though you'd think it'd be easier with ARM now).

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#54

It's mentioned already, but: Android. Discounting Android as "Not Linux" enough is a mind boggle to me. Perhaps not "GNU" enough, but certainly the spirit of Linux -- customized for the particular needs, stable, fast, works on a plethora of hardware, etc.

What they're referring to as linux is actually gnu/linux, or as I like to call it, gnu+linux.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#56

It's mentioned already, but: Android. Discounting Android as "Not Linux" enough is a mind boggle to me. Perhaps not "GNU" enough, but certainly the spirit of Linux -- customized for the particular needs, stable, fast, works on a plethora of hardware, etc.

Yes, articles like this illustrate that RMS had a point, as annoying as he can be about it. Android is obviously Linux. What's missing is all of the things GNU and BSD brought to the party.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#57
I think it's time we take a descriptivist view of "Linux", because there is some hard-to-describe way that Android isn't "Linuxy". If a good mobile graphical BSD OS appeared from nowhere , we might consider it "Linuxy-er" than Android.

The presentation does a good job of explaining what is missing for a good "Linux smartphone ".

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#58
post #24

Before answering that question I'd ask: why would we want that? My answer is no, it didn't work on the desktop, it won't work on the smartphone, for more or less the same reasons. As much as I like Linux and FOSS, Linux is just a bad OS for the average consumer. For hackers, makers, DYI enthusiasts, etc. Linux is wonderful, however, what's the market size for a Linux smart phone for this people? I bet it's tiny.

Didn't work on the desktop? I've been running Linux exclusively on my desktops for 15 years. Desktop Linux is better today than it's ever been.

Why does every OS need to be suitable for average consumers? Librem and Pine64 are doing great work in the mobile Linux space on the hardware side, and projects like PostmarketOS are doing great work on the software side. These are niche products for motivated enthusiasts, as they should be. They'll never grow to billions of users, nor should they. The tech industry's "grow massive or the product is worthless" mindset is pathological, in my opinion.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#59

I'm typing this comment from a Poco F1 I set up with postmarketOS and Phosh earlier this week and so far it's very promising. Will write up a proper review next week. Much better than the Pinephone so far.

Looking forward to your review!

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#60

I'm typing this comment from a Poco F1 I set up with postmarketOS and Phosh earlier this week and so far it's very promising. Will write up a proper review next week. Much better than the Pinephone so far.

This is interesting. Communities like postmarketOS put in a lot of effort to adapt their distribution to hardware that would otherwise be running Android.

Perhaps targeting commodity hardware is a more viable strategy than contending with newer platforms like Pinephone. Sure the device is more open, but most of the software support falls on the same community of developers. Lord knows they have enough build targets to maintain already.

I'm sure there will always be a place for custom hardware like Pinephone, Librem 5, but repurposing a flagship Android device is going to be a better value proposition for most people.

I own a first-gen Pinephone and it seemed really promising for a while. As things got fixed and the state of affairs improved, I think everybody's expectations shifted whether they realized it or not. Phone calls and SMS work perfectly, but after that started working, now I want it to do GPS and navigation. Doing this is possible, but pushes the poor Pinephone's hardware to its limit.

I think offloading progressively more tasks to a computer is perfectly natural, but ultimately (for me at least) this killed the Pinephone's viability. I wound up hitting a glass ceiling way too soon for comfort.

It's one thing if software support for specific tasks is nonexistent - this is a solvable problem, the community marches forward and fixes this as a matter of course.

But what do you do when you have the software support, but it just doesn't run on your Allwinner A64?

Maybe things have improved yet more since the last time I tried. I'll have to check out Pure Maps again.

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