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Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

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Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#171
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a public sector salary cap in many parts of Canada, despite roaring inflation. And a general vibe from the public and the government that generally despises public sector unions and would almost certainly backlash against nurses and teachers should they sensibly decide to go on strike. For two years they busted their asses for the public in tough straits and now COVID numbers in the hospital system are still…

No comment on unions but I never understood the salary caps, especially that new one for nurses. That's the opposite of what we should be doing.

It's the opposite of what you'd be doing if you wanted the system to function correctly... But what if you didn't? Because you wanted to replace it, but it was dangerous to say that out loud?

The Conservatives (and to some extent some Liberals as well) have been playing a long game -- since the 70s when it was introduced -- to get rid of medicare.

It's incredibly popular with Canadians as a whole, but if you take conservative leadership aside, get them drunk, and get them to speak honestly ... they want it gone. Or at the very least, severely curtailed and a private option introduced.

Klein tried to do it in Alberta in the 90s (bring in more extensive private services) and the feds (under Chretien) beat him back in the courts. But now they're getting quite open again about it in both Alberta and Ontario and pitching it as a solution to a crisis. A crisis they helped creat.

EDIT: again, I think the system needs reforming. But likely not the way they want it reformed.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#172
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Conservative Party have been in power for 12 years. When they gained power they pursued a policy of "austerity" to reduce the size of the govt and local govt, reduce the funding of nationally funded things, and to replace such govt owned things with "public private partnerships". This can be seen everywhere from social care (private care homes), schools (academy schools), transport (where area contracts are bid f…

>> The Conservative Party have been in power for 12 years. When they gained power they pursued a policy of "austerity" to reduce the size of the govt and local govt, reduce the funding of nationally funded things, and to replace such govt owned things with "public private partnerships". You seem to be missing a bit of context here - this was after the Global Financial Crisis when even the outgoing Labour Chancellor o…

Folk talking about austerity as a tory thing are going to be in for a monster shock if energy prices persist through the next elections, and when they realize the size of the Covid bill vs the GFC bill. It may very well be Labour sitting as the final nails are driven into the NHS, just by sheer luck of timing

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#173
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Conservative Party have been in power for 12 years. When they gained power they pursued a policy of "austerity" to reduce the size of the govt and local govt, reduce the funding of nationally funded things, and to replace such govt owned things with "public private partnerships". This can be seen everywhere from social care (private care homes), schools (academy schools), transport (where area contracts are bid f…

>> The Conservative Party have been in power for 12 years. When they gained power they pursued a policy of "austerity" to reduce the size of the govt and local govt, reduce the funding of nationally funded things, and to replace such govt owned things with "public private partnerships". You seem to be missing a bit of context here - this was after the Global Financial Crisis when even the outgoing Labour Chancellor o…

[deleted]

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#174
The thread reminds me of the Guardian's podcast "Sewage Sleuths" which uncovered catastrophic sewage being dumped into England and Wales's rivers and streams. Very informative and enlightening how bad some government infrastructure can be (hint: in the podcast they also enlightened HOW the failure got bad).

https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2022/aug/15/sewage-sl...

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is too bad that corrupt government officials keep systemically defunding Social Health programs with the objective of pushing private for-profit healthcare (which just doesn't make sense). Then they point to the deficient healthcare and blame the "socialized" aspect of it for the issues. Here in Mexico we've seen it all play out: We had an amazing social healthcare system (in the form of the IMSS) in the 70s and 8…

>with the objective of pushing private for-profit healthcare (which just doesn't make sense) Maybe it doesn't make sense for you, but it makes their buddies in the private sector a lot of money. And that's the game in capitalism, making a lot of money. The government competing with affordable options for everyone against the private sector is "bad for business".

Let’s not pretend corruption is unique to capitalism.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#177
post #56

What if the government allowed private enterprise to open emergency clinics in times of great need? There are probably a lot of people who would be willing to pay out of pocket for medical care, especially in an emergency, if it meant getting seen sooner.

The USA have tried, it doesn't work. People still wait hours and hours in the ER. They just have to pay thousands for the privilege.

People still wait hours and hours in the ER [in the US]

If you have a genuine emergency, you'll be seen immediately virtually anywhere in the US.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#178

Quoted post unavailable.

Compared to the cesspool that is the US system? The NHS was amazing. We don’t talk about it, but people still die for non-COVID emergencies because hospitals in the Us are routinely full in 2022. Privatization of hospital systems in the US have lead to very warped incentives, where C sections are the norm because it’s faster and more money for the hospital and Drs.

> Privatization of hospital systems in the US have lead to very warped incentives, where C sections are the norm because it’s faster and more money for the hospital and Drs.

The US rate of c-sections was 32% in 2017 (and roughly the same for 2020), the same as Switzerland. It's 27.7% in Canada, 33.7% in Australia and 27.4% in the UK.

28% across the OECD, 30% in Germany, 45% in South Korea, 34% in Italy.

So much for that.

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/fa1f7281-en/index.html?i...

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>with the objective of pushing private for-profit healthcare (which just doesn't make sense) Maybe it doesn't make sense for you, but it makes their buddies in the private sector a lot of money. And that's the game in capitalism, making a lot of money. The government competing with affordable options for everyone against the private sector is "bad for business".

Let’s not pretend corruption is unique to capitalism.

That's not what I said.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#180
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a public sector salary cap in many parts of Canada, despite roaring inflation. And a general vibe from the public and the government that generally despises public sector unions and would almost certainly backlash against nurses and teachers should they sensibly decide to go on strike. For two years they busted their asses for the public in tough straits and now COVID numbers in the hospital system are still…

No comment on unions but I never understood the salary caps, especially that new one for nurses. That's the opposite of what we should be doing.

The business idea behind the salary cap is to make budgeting more predictable. If the budget is $X and you need a staff of Y, your salary cap of $X/Y makes it easier to manage... in theory.

In reality, if $X/Y is low, then you can't find anyone who will work at that rate and you either have to cut back services or outsource (which is often in a different budget - see traveling nurses).

It is the opposite of what should be done, but if you're trying to fit things into a fixed budget then it is what must be done. The way to fix it is to get the budget to expand up to what is needed to supply services. That is a difficult sell in the public sector.

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