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Remote startups will win the war for top talent

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Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#241

Post by tomtheelder »

randomdata wrote: post #180
rngname22 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that those of your view and those espousing that remote is more difficult might have different personalities, levels of need of social interaction, or lifestyles? Have you considered that your company is self-selecting for those who flourish in remote, but that those whose personalities differ are self-selecting for working in an office environment? It's OK for there to not be a one size fits all…

> that those whose personalities differ are self-selecting for working in an office environment? Remote doesn't specify where you work, though. In my 20 years of working remotely, I've worked from home, from cars, hotels, cafes, offices, out in the middle of a field, you name it I've probably done it. 100% remote working conditions can mean working in an office environment every single day, if that's your preference.…

Working in an office without your coworkers is in no way a substitute for working in an office with them. What people are talking about when they say they prefer an office environment is face to face collaboration and socialization. You don't get that unless the people in the office with you are you coworkers.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#242

Post by throwawaysleep »

redleggedfrog wrote: post #66

"Your remote team is my company's opportunity." Purely anecdotal based on my own experience, but at my company we have some people who work in an office and lots more that work remotely. The in office staff contribute more ideas, work, fixes, and functional software than the remote teams by a factor of 4 or 5, or sometimes, depending on the in office worker, 10 times. Those are hard numbers right out of our project m…

I can see the difference between remote and in office being passion.

I like remote because I don’t want to be all in on work. I don’t care enough about my company to even write up an expensive bug I noticed. I just let it waste my org’s money.

I can see those who actually give a shit being more likely to go into the office.

I don’t think your remote workers would be more productive in office. I wouldn’t be. I just stare dead between the eyes in the same meetings I just nap during when I am remote. Rather, highly productive and engaged people are just less likely to want remote.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#243

Post by jkukul »

andrewingram wrote: post #75
rngname22 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that those of your view and those espousing that remote is more difficult might have different personalities, levels of need of social interaction, or lifestyles? Have you considered that your company is self-selecting for those who flourish in remote, but that those whose personalities differ are self-selecting for working in an office environment? It's OK for there to not be a one size fits all…

Right. During my somewhat passive job search, I've only been considering companies that have an office local to me (i.e. Central London). I've been working remotely since the start of the pandemic, and I simply don't like it. Sure, I don't miss having to commute or offices with bad noise pollution controls, but I miss everything else. Most of all, I miss being in town at the end of the day and being able to pop to th…

1. Find an interesting remote job.

2. Sign-up to a local coworking space in Central London and make a habit to go there every day. Try to make friends with people there and go out with them every now and then. Many coworking spaces even try to facilitate community building by organising events, etc.

3. Profit.

Socializing doesn't need to happen at work.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#244

Post by time_to_smile »

trention wrote: post #147
time_to_smile wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised that more people can't see the writing on the wall. The startup boom exists because money was so cheap you had to spend it. Then consumer spending started to ramp up again and money was flowing both ways. Worrying about profits was viewed as silly since that would get in the way of maximizing growth under the assumption that you could one day flip a switch and generate profit. With inflation risi…

There is no scenario in which tech declines without the US entering a recession and when the US enters a recession, the "cheap money" is going to be coming back. There is no way the dotcom crash is repeated because today IT is integrated inside every aspect of every business. It will be just another regular recession. The biggest threat to programming jobs in the US is outsourcing (and, in the longer term - automatio…

I'll make sure to check back on this comment in 6 months, certainly hoping that I do so laughing about how much I was overreacting.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#246

Post by trention »

TrackerFF wrote: post #183
dfadsadsf wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are virtually no engineers in Lagos and very few in Buenos Aires who compete with engineers in SF/NYC (the one getting SF/NYC salary) in terms of skill set. One thing that many people overestimate is number of competent engineers outside of well known tech hubs. I know that it was big surprise for FB and other big tier 1 companies when they started to hire remotely was that it was not actually easier to hire re…

I'm simply not buying it. If you can't find potential in a candidate pool that's practically in the tens to hundreds of millions, it's more likely your search methods aren't cutting it. EDIT: But let me specify - the original premise to this was that there are already two comparable candidates in SF and somewhere else in the world.

There aren't "hundreds of millions" of developers on this planet. The talent pool is small because just a small fraction of the workforce worldwide has the training, skills and capabilities to work as software engineers.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#247

Post by dont__panic »

echelon wrote: post #55

There are so many forces pulling in so many directions. The world is being re-shuffled. Ultimately, I don't think it will favor labor at US/FAANG talent prices. - Young workers typically want to socialize with other young workers - Older workers prefer to be alone, with family, etc. Have funds for larger homes and at-home amenities - Nearly everyone hates commutes - Cities are expensive and small, but exciting. Rural…

Companies could hire and replace workers outside of American borders for the last... century at least? Video chat and conference calls have been a thing for decades at this point.

Why does remote change this equation? If American real estate and salaries are expensive, businesses could always just open an office in a cheaper country, somewhere in Eastern Europe, India, or Asia, etc.

I'm a little confused how the bullet points you provided lead to the outcome in your final paragraph. Could you clarify?

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#248

Post by closeparen »

danwee wrote: post #86
icedchai wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communications and collaboration is very important. However, "socializing" through Slack is simply just not the same as going out to lunch with a coworker, for example. Permanent remote work has a very detached feel to it, at least for me.

I don't get this. If you have a coworker that enjoy having lunch with you... what's stopping you both doing so? I mean, even if you both work from home, you could still schedule a lunch together in the city, right? If you both live in different cities, well, I guess before COVID you weren't having lunch together that frequently. 100% remote doesn't dictate how (or with who) you eat lunch.

Nothing prevents you from making plans to meet up with coworkers, once every few months. That is a very different thing, from a sense-of-belonging perspective, from having a group that you share meals with day after day.

The only thing besides work that could be comparable is a family. That's it's own challenge, though: easy to get cabin fever locked in with the same small group of people all the time.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#249

Post by bad416f1f5a2 »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #145
andrewingram wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. During my somewhat passive job search, I've only been considering companies that have an office local to me (i.e. Central London). I've been working remotely since the start of the pandemic, and I simply don't like it. Sure, I don't miss having to commute or offices with bad noise pollution controls, but I miss everything else. Most of all, I miss being in town at the end of the day and being able to pop to th…

> yes, this is a me thing, but it's also always been a me thing I feel like picking jobs off of a desire to live a social life and feel like part of a community is extremely normal and valid. Remote work is essentially accepting that the primary way you'll engage with your colleagues and labor is through a screen, and that is an uncomfortable feeling (to some people at least)

Funny, I have always seen “work as community” to offer an illusory connection at best. At its worst it is exploited by employers.

My coworkers are my colleagues. I don’t mind sharing a beer with them once in a while, but apart from “work” we have different interests, values, and experiences. That doesn’t lead to community, it leads to having acquaintances. And if you doubt that, ask yourself how many of your “work friends” from a job you’ve had more than a year ago do you still interact with?

The pandemic has been a joy for me because it’s let me separate my parasocial interactions from my true friends.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#250

Post by jollyllama »

jstx1 wrote: post #27

I used to simply dislike remote. Now I hate it with a deeper passion with every additional day that I do it. Other things I'm looking for in a job (apart from a convenient office location) - (1) high pay and (2) stability. Startups just can't offer these things, least of all remote startups.

You can find this but the tech isn't always the sexiest. Look for manufacturing or infrastructure companies. Be prepared for legacy systems, dated IT practices, and being your own QA or DevOps.

Edit: if this doesn't sound great to you, look into robotics; a lot of startups are constantly looking for good engineers willing to work in person. Often times they settle for remote, so stress in any interviews that you're willing to be in person.

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