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Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

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Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#151

Post by pjc50 »

dominotw wrote: post #81
bananapear wrote: post #45

But what has caused the collapse of emergency healthcare in the UK? A lack of supply or an increase in demand?

Its always the same answer. People stuffing their faces with garbage food and chilling on the couch all day. Apparently there was an explosion of obesity in UK during covid. These people clog up all the available supply leaving very little for the rest. Its the same story everywhere. Ppl whine about funding, shortages ect but no one cares about if we can do something about the demand. Govt pushed covid vaccine on you…

The effects of obesity are wildly overstated, not to mention how many medical conditions it's irrelevant for. Especially in accident&emergency.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#152

Post by Auracle »

nosianu wrote: post #103
iam-TJ wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increase in demand - much of which is attributed (by the NHS itself) for people having poor life-styles (meaning tending to obesity [0] and not maintaining physical and mental fitness), and the tendency for people to be kept alive longer existing with chronic conditions that a few decades ago would have naturally expired (dead!). There's been an endemic problem for the last 30+ years where-by a large proportion of th…

> Nearly two-thirds of adults in England are overweight or obese. That means the issue is systemic and one needs to look at things outside of individual control. Yes, often systemic issue can be overcome by individuals - by the top quartile kind of individuals with more luck, better genes, better education (including what they picked up at home while growing up), more money, more suitable lives than the majority, or…

You can both blame people and society. Modern living makes it easy to be fat, but plenty of us don’t succumb to the temptation of easy meals and overeating.

I’m not sure how you’d even change modern life to get around this, save maybe for incredibly large sin taxes on everything from soda to every restaurant. I’m sure we’ll just end up with a pill sometime soon. Semaglutide comes close.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#153

Post by pjc50 »

dkarl wrote: post #101
ben_w wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong country. Despite the joke, the UK isn't an American state.

Do you think it doesn't apply to the UK? I drew on a US example because it was something I could explain in enough detail. Maybe UK economic elites have mastered control of their voters in a way that US elites have not. Although, you'll have to explain which economic elites in the UK decided that Brexit would be to their advantage and how they stole a march on the UK finance industry.

> Although, you'll have to explain which economic elites in the UK decided that Brexit would be to their advantage

The press.

For a time, Johnson himself was both a minister and a "journalist" for the Times. He was paid more for writing one article a week than for being a minister. Eventually he was forced to give this up. But Brexit is to a great extent a media project, backed by sensational but misleading claims, and supported by the media/politics revolving door.

The Sarah Vine/Michael Gove couple had quite an effect too.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#154

Post by LatteLazy »

rsynnott wrote: post #100
rjsw wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I voted against an Alternative Vote, I do support Proportional Representation.

Watching from next door (we've had STV PR in Ireland since independence), I never got this. PR _wasn't on offer_. Unless you actually preferred first past the post to AV (PR > FPTP > AV seems like a weird preference ranking, but I suppose it might be _someone's_), why on earth didn't you vote for AV?

Welcome to England where people prefer Bojo to Kier because Kier isn't left wing enough...

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#155

Post by Auracle »

iam-TJ wrote: post #64
bananapear wrote: post #45

But what has caused the collapse of emergency healthcare in the UK? A lack of supply or an increase in demand?

Increase in demand - much of which is attributed (by the NHS itself) for people having poor life-styles (meaning tending to obesity [0] and not maintaining physical and mental fitness), and the tendency for people to be kept alive longer existing with chronic conditions that a few decades ago would have naturally expired (dead!). There's been an endemic problem for the last 30+ years where-by a large proportion of th…

Meanwhile in the US there’s been a push to limit the copays for insulin, pushing the cost of all of those almost entirely preventable type 2 diabetics on to everyone else.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#156

Post by ben_w »

gadders wrote: post #110
buro9 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Conservative Party have been in power for 12 years. When they gained power they pursued a policy of "austerity" to reduce the size of the govt and local govt, reduce the funding of nationally funded things, and to replace such govt owned things with "public private partnerships". This can be seen everywhere from social care (private care homes), schools (academy schools), transport (where area contracts are bid f…

>> The Conservative Party have been in power for 12 years. When they gained power they pursued a policy of "austerity" to reduce the size of the govt and local govt, reduce the funding of nationally funded things, and to replace such govt owned things with "public private partnerships". You seem to be missing a bit of context here - this was after the Global Financial Crisis when even the outgoing Labour Chancellor o…

To riff off the Oscar Wilde quote, half a decade of no growth may be regarded as misfortune, one and a half decades looks like carelessness.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#157

Post by oliwarner »

xtracto wrote: post #124
oliwarner wrote: post #116

This isn't a collapse of emergency healthcare, it's a very predicted collapse of community social care: hospitals can't discharge if they need a care home place that doesn't exist. Without inpatient bed availability, ERs and AMUs can't admit to specialties and everything gums up at the front door. Let's be clear: we do need many more doctors and nurses, but the existing ones can't do their jobs because their wards ha…

It is too bad that corrupt government officials keep systemically defunding Social Health programs with the objective of pushing private for-profit healthcare (which just doesn't make sense). Then they point to the deficient healthcare and blame the "socialized" aspect of it for the issues. Here in Mexico we've seen it all play out: We had an amazing social healthcare system (in the form of the IMSS) in the 70s and 8…

2004 was the peak of Blair-Brown Labour party investment.

They didn't get it all right. They used PFI and outsourcing to fudge the sums on major investments, and I dare say they didn't invest in mental and social health care in the amount required. But nobody ever has.

The job of fixing this is so expensive and requires so much political force. We're still worried French immigrants are going to eat our dingos, or something. I'm fairly certain now we're destined to limp into an American insurance model; eat the poor.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#158

Post by dkarl »

pjc50 wrote: post #153
dkarl wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it doesn't apply to the UK? I drew on a US example because it was something I could explain in enough detail. Maybe UK economic elites have mastered control of their voters in a way that US elites have not. Although, you'll have to explain which economic elites in the UK decided that Brexit would be to their advantage and how they stole a march on the UK finance industry.

> Although, you'll have to explain which economic elites in the UK decided that Brexit would be to their advantage The press. For a time, Johnson himself was both a minister and a "journalist" for the Times. He was paid more for writing one article a week than for being a minister. Eventually he was forced to give this up. But Brexit is to a great extent a media project, backed by sensational but misleading claims, a…

If that's the best answer, I think it tends to show that money didn't buy Brexit. The media doesn't care what circus they're covering, as long as there are plenty of clowns and dancing bears. The people who had the money and motivation to buy public opinion on the issue lost out, and it all happened because some politicians found a message that resonated with voters and kept on it as long as it kept working.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#159

Post by rjsw »

rsynnott wrote: post #100
rjsw wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I voted against an Alternative Vote, I do support Proportional Representation.

Watching from next door (we've had STV PR in Ireland since independence), I never got this. PR _wasn't on offer_. Unless you actually preferred first past the post to AV (PR > FPTP > AV seems like a weird preference ranking, but I suppose it might be _someone's_), why on earth didn't you vote for AV?

I live in a safe seat but feel that if I lived elsewhere then I could get the same effect as AV by just voting tactically.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#160

Post by cjrp »

oliwarner wrote: post #116

This isn't a collapse of emergency healthcare, it's a very predicted collapse of community social care: hospitals can't discharge if they need a care home place that doesn't exist. Without inpatient bed availability, ERs and AMUs can't admit to specialties and everything gums up at the front door. Let's be clear: we do need many more doctors and nurses, but the existing ones can't do their jobs because their wards ha…

> libraries and early years provisions

Seen exactly this in my local area. Libraries closing or cutting hours/resources. The number of children's centres (where you go for check-ups/weigh-ins of young kids, to get feeding advice, etc.) reduced by 80+% in some counties. It's dire.

Some relevant graphs here: https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/local-g...

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